Welcome to Ritual Sisters, the podcast where your hosts and fellow travelers, Michelle and Kelly, explore the ways that ritual can help you feel better through the ups and downs of life. So let's take a deep breath and start this journey together.

Okay. Are we doing mind meld? Yes. Ooh, yes. Okay, I'll explain. I'm so excited. I'm excited too. Hannah. I've never done this. What is it called? Yeah, it's called Mind meld. Mind Meld, and I just love games. This is a, this is an improv game and I learned it a while ago. Let's just think of an example to start. So.

Two. 1, 2, 3. Fart toothpaste. Okay. Okay. Toothpaste and farts. Three. Bathroom. Bathroom. And smell. And smell. Oh, okay. One. Two. 1, 2, 3, 3, 3 poop. Wow. We did it. So let's go. Yeah. Did it. And now we're saying poop On your podcast. I gonna gonna come out soon. I have to mark it as explicit now as it's an explicit podcast.

Welcome to Ritual Sisters, everybody. Okay, well Ritual Fam, we are getting silly today. We should. We sure are. Hannah Butler, you already know her. You just. Don't know that you know her because she is the woman behind our theme song. She sure is. She wrote it.

She wrote it. She performed it. Yep. Produced it. Produced it. Yeah. Everything with, with your guys' equipment. That's true. Inspiration. We just, we did the third one anyways. She has experience with improv. Mm-hmm. She dabbles in the creative arts. Sure. Do. We know her through a friend who works at a sexual assault victim advocacy center where Hannah work, she was just at one of those.

Just an anonymous one, and she is now attending grad school to become a licensed marriage and family therapist. So exciting. Yeah. Hannah, we're so proud of you. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So welcome, Hannah. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Oh, I feel very excited. Oh, well we're so honored to have you and we love Kick starting it off with.

Mm-hmm. Just tell us a little bit about yourself, Michelle and I also would love to hear like how you even got into improv. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. And not to throw too much at you, but Yes. Also, what season of life are you in? Mm. Okay. Wherever you wanna start. Perfect. Okay. I feel like you covered in the intro a lot of.

Basics. I, um, I guess for the purposes of this podcast, yes, like identify myself as like someone who has done a lot of work in kind of like the helping professional realm. Mm-hmm. That's very important to me and has been throughout my life. And so currently this. I don't know if this is the season, but really like going through this growth period of like becoming a therapist and really taking on part of like this identity.

Um, and it's this really beautiful thing so far. I don't know how to describe it. Um, yes, and then I'm also like a very big part of who I am. Is a really creative person that has done various things such as improv and music and filmmaking and all of these things, and, and also struggles sometimes with like the balance of those two identities.

And like, if I'm doing this one thing professionally, does that. You know, discount all of these other creative ventures that I'm not doing in like a professional way, but it's all important to me and I'm, yeah. Yeah, it's, it makes me feel well-rounded to be able to identify with both things. Mm-hmm. How I got started in improv.

I was thinking about this a bit. Oh, okay. In preparation for the podcast, I was like, okay, how did this begin for me? It was when I was in, I feel like. Middle school. Mm-hmm. I recall seeing some high school students because my mom is an English teacher and so I would like go to the school to hang out with her.

Um, after I was done with school and people were staying after and like using her classroom to like practice, they were part of like the speech team and they were an improv troupe and so I like watched them practice. Older students. And I remember like in particular one moment that I was just like in complete awe watching them do this improv, just rehearsal.

Mm-hmm. Just in a classroom. Mm-hmm. Yes. Like not a performance, but they were just like practicing. And it was, oh, it was so, I was delighted to see and I was like, holy shit, this is amazing. These just like high school students are doing this like incredible, fun, creative thing. And so that was a big moment to me and that sticks out.

And I also, I love what a core memory that is for you, Hannah. It is a core memory. I like you just teleported me there. Yes. It like unlocked for me on the way here. I was like, oh yeah. Like this was a big moment. Yes. Then I also remember staying up late to watch whose line is it Anyway, I feel like a lot of people might relate.

What is seeing that is, I feel like I saw that. Shoot. What was that? Um, it was a show. I think it. I, I watched it on a, B, c family. I'm not sure if that's where like it originally aired. Yeah. But it was like. I'm pretty sure it was then and they played it like late at night and it was, um, this improv show on TV and I feel like improv is not super mainstream kind of stuff, but it was like short form games.

They were playing all these different little games. Drew Carey was the host. There was like Wayne Brady. I got a look at Old Clips 'cause I feel like I've definitely seen this. It's so good. I, and I'm feeling upset that I'm not. Currently thinking about Colin Mockery, I'm like the other names and Ryan something, but those were like the three main people, and I loved it.

I thought it was so fun and I just had never seen anything like it. So I remember. Getting outta bed and like watching this show. And then, sorry, I'm long-winded. Um, when I entered high school, then I was like, okay, I can join speech and debate. Like I saw these older students participating in, I like with a friend, we were like, okay, we're gonna do improv.

For this thing. And so then we just like started doing improv and performing it at little like speech competitions. Wow. In Iowa. And it was so fun and so nerve wracking too. And improv was like, for me back then was like, the practice was like a little bit different. There was a little bit more like structure to it, doing it in high school where like you would pick like a, a prompt or whatever and have some time to kind of like prepare a scene.

Mm-hmm. And then when I was in college. I was very, very afraid to audition for the improv troupe there. I remember watching it in college like my first couple of years and just again, that feeling of awe and like, oh my God, this is just the coolest thing I've ever seen. These people are so. Funny and brave and cool.

And I just find improv to be the best. And then finally my senior year of college, I worked up the courage to audition. Yes, you did, Hannah. And then, so it was just one year in college, my senior year that I was part of the improv troupe at Luther College Top Banana. And it was so fun. I was so honored to be a part of it, but I also was so scared.

I remember like our first few performances. Mm-hmm. I was like, I'm gonna. I feel like I'm gonna be sick and I'm gonna go up to my improv troop members and lie to them and say, I just got sick in the bathroom. I, I can't perform. I'm sorry. I'm, I've fallen ill. I like was so close to being like, I've, I have to bail.

And that happened like several times, but I did it. And it was really fun. You did. I did it and then after college I was in Chicago. I'm just like the little touchstones of improv throughout my life. No, this is so helpful. And I also just wanna say, Hannah, thank you for sharing that story. Yeah. Because I think it is, it's easy to think, okay, start a college, join the troop right away.

Like again, like those, what we see are often Right, the mainstream success stories. Right. And it, it's often goes like this. Mm-hmm. We are loving these touchstones. Please keep going. Okay, so another part of my improv journey, this was like a big touchstone, was when I was in Chicago and Second City was there and there was this huge desire to be like, oh my God, like Second City is here.

People that I look up to, like funny people who got their start at Second City, like Tina Fey and stuff. I was like, I have to. Go and like visit there. And there was this one night where my friend, who I actually did improv with in high school, so she's the one that like, we were doing it together and she was in Chicago at the time.

She was in Chicago too, living there? Yes. Yes. All the golden threads. Mm-hmm. All the golden threads we went to. A improv kind of like workshop. Mm-hmm. I don't believe we had to pay anything, but it was at Second City and it was like with people, 'cause people will go there and like pay for training and classes and stuff, but she was invited by someone to go and then she invited me to just like do this improv, I don't know, workshop thing.

And I was like, yeah, we'll go and we'll watch is what I thought it was going to be. Mm-hmm. Um, but then it was like, okay, people are. People are doing it and they're inviting us to like join the circle and do the wow, do the improv games and all of this thing. And I was, again, very, very nervous, but I did it and I, it was just such a like flash of a moment where like I look back and I don't, I think about these people that I met that one night and I never met or like talked to them again.

I don't think we exchanged any, like, contact information. I have folks thinking about this. It was one of the best nights I, because it just, I don't know, it unlocked. I think I have thought about improv in some like art things like so preciously as like it's this incredible thing that only you have to be like this good to like participate in it and do it, but to have an experience where I was like just meeting other people, just living in the city who were just choosing to participate.

In this, it was like, wow, I, I could do that if I wanted to. And I just met these people and talked to them and we had drinks afterwards and I, it was very cool. Okay. And then fast forward, I'm here in Fort Collins. Yeah. And then I see. I think it was just advertised on Facebook auditions for like an improv troupe here.

And then I did that and we were called Horse Tooth Improv and we're no longer a troupe anymore that is active. But I did that for a couple of years and that was really wonderful. And we did some performing and went to the Denver Improv Festival. This was a while ago. I'm wearing the shirt. Oh, you are?

But from 2019, and then since then I've been just like hosting some fun little like improv jams. So, yeah, not doing it like super actively right now, but it's still one of my favorite things ever. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's my very long journey. No, I love that. With improv. I think it's, it's good too, because I think it, it goes back to that imposter syndrome like we've talked about.

Mm-hmm. That. It's a lot easier if you're just like, oh, I was in Second City, or whatever. Mm-hmm. And you can just like name a big thing, but mm-hmm. It's, you have so many of these touch points along the way and so much experience with it, but it's hard to, in casual conversation, go through your entire history.

Totally. Totally. Of, you know, I think it feels a little validating to go through and be like, okay, yeah, I have some of these experiences. But also it is very like, I guess. I don't know. It still is experience. That's not like professional experience or like extensive experience. Mm. Like I never took a second City class.

It was just like this one night that I was there doing it. But that felt like a very big Yes. That was a, that was another big, like touchstone as we talked about with like me kind of solidifying my love for improv and my like desire to be like, oh, I, I want this to be in my life, even in like this casual way.

Yeah. It's, it's seen as such a maybe strange thing to do casually. Yeah, no, thank you. People aren't like, I just do improv on the side. Thank you for walking us through this. Hannah and I have said, this is one of my favorite things is like if someone's a swimmer or someone's a, fill in the blank. I love knowing the history.

Michelle and I were just talking about honoring the roots, digging into the roots. Mm-hmm. And this is one of my favorite things. Understanding where this all came from. Mm-hmm. So, wow. What a treat to hear this, Hannah. Mm-hmm. It's fun to talk about it. Yeah. Because it's not something I feel like that I often get to.

I don't know. Talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Hannah, we also ask everyone what is your relationship to rituals and ceremonies? Mm-hmm. I have been thinking about this since you guys sent that email kind of prepping me and being like, we'll talk about this. And I've been honestly struggling a little bit to like find.

My answer to that question, and I'm not sure why, and I think what has been coming to mind is maybe this transforming current, like active, an active transformation. This idea that I have maybe about like ritual and ceremony, because I think one of the first things that come to mind. Like, speaking of improv is like that.

It's this, maybe it has to be like this bigger ordeal rather than this, like these smaller things that you can integrate. So I think my kind of like my, maybe a part that has like a gut reaction to ritual or ceremony is like, oh, it's this, this bigger thing. Do I do ritual and ceremony, but then I have this, these other, here's the transformation where I'm, no, I'm seeing it as like these, these smaller.

Things. It doesn't have to be this like one big event that is like, this is the ritual, this is the ceremony that I'm doing. So that's what, what's coming to mind. It's easy. Build things up. Yeah. It's so easy to build them up to be these big things. Yeah. When it often is the small. Mm-hmm. Simple moments.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because. That you say that because I think of you as a very ritual person and like Interesting. Ooh, say more Michelle. Yeah. Tell me more about me. Yes. I just feel like you're a very intentional person and very thoughtful and even we were over at your new place, which is adorable the other night.

Just like even the little, the cocktails that you made, you made us Oh, that was even a ritual. Yeah. Of how you made the cocktails with the egg whites and the glassware and the, I completely agree. Yeah. Just every piece of it was thought out and it was like this beautiful experience and I like have it marked in my brain now of like that cocktail, which I feel like is like kind of the spirit of ritual.

It's not just like, oh, come over to my place. We'll just. Sit around and do nothing. Mm-hmm. It's like you were thoughtful about what are we gonna do in this space? What are, what are the drinks that I'm gonna serve? How am I gonna create community here? Mm-hmm. Ooh. Yeah. Johanna infuses the thoughtfulness.

Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And that is interesting and I think that's part of like. Me adjusting maybe my idea about ritual because the more that I've like heard you guys talk about it and done things like it can be this bigger set aside time, but. Yeah. I think what also comes to mind with ritual for me is like, yeah, intention, thoughtfulness, and there are a lot of things that I feel like you can bring those pieces into It kind.

Not to be jumping too forward, but it makes me think of when I've hosted the improv jams that we've done. Mm-hmm. I've taken so many elements from these different experiences that I have with improv. Where in my college improv troop, we would do these exercises in the troop that I was here in Fort Collins.

We would do these exercises and I learned so much from people who were like leading them. So then when I was like, okay, I wanna continue to do improv and I wanna lead this, I would try to be thoughtful and integrate those exercises or things like mind meld or other different, like, I guess like kind of rituals in the improv.

Space and even trying to be really thoughtful about how I'm maybe introducing people to improv who don't have a lot of experience how I want to, yeah. I guess introduce people to it and like create a space for it. So we're like, we'll sit down before the jam and talk about are there things that you don't wanna.

Topics that you don't wanna have brought up for improv right now. Are there ways that your body is not feeling good? So you wanna set these limitations, not limitations, really good questions to ask? Help. Help include like make it an inclusive space. Make it an inclusive space. So there has been intentional elements in that and I do, and I think that when we've done those dance, it's been a while that could be seen as like a kind of ritual and like opening the space for people and then.

Doing some exercise to kind of like, okay, close this time together. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I a hundred percent agree and I think it as someone who's attended, Michelle, yes. Yeah, no, I think, yeah, you're good about thinking about opening, closing, the whole process of it, and I think that's what the difference is between ritual and not, is that it creates more of this cohesive memory, this cohesive experience that people take away.

Mm-hmm.

You know, so we are gonna get into this a little bit more. You ready? I'm so ready. All right. So our first question is, how does improv slash comedy mm-hmm. Benefit us regardless of our background careers? Oh man, I like that question a lot. Improv. Can benefit everybody. Mm-hmm. Improv, like I was, this is one of the things that I was thinking about.

Improv can be this very accessible form of expression and art because you literally need nothing. You just, that's, that's wild. You really don't need anything. Literally do it whenever we could do improv right now, like, so in that way I find it beneficial because it's like it's, and anyone can participate in it and for some.

Forms of expression and art and silliness or whatever. It's like, okay, we need, we need these things. We want these things. Um, but you don't necessarily need those. I also think that it, I do think that it kind of can change your relationship. Sorry guys. My brain is going in a thousand different directions and that's pretty typical for me.

So if I'm talking too long, you let me know, oh, you're doing amazing. But it, I think, can benefit. You in so many ways because it can teach a lot of lessons about trusting your intuition, trusting just like in mind mill, like first thing that comes to mind and. Yeah, I mean that requires a lot of trust and then a lot of like bravery to like say the first thing or yes, act on these first thoughts that come to mind.

Um, and then also the bravery to be like, what if I say something that's so silly or. So like confusing for other people. Like why, why would you think of that? Like you do expose yourself a little bit to like judgment or like, and we're all afraid of that, but, so it really kind of challenges you. And to be, to have like the freedom and acceptance of like, I might say something that might not make sense or I might follow this thought and maybe it doesn't go anywhere, no productive or whatever.

Not that it, but it just, I, I do think that it kind of challenges you to practice some of these things that I think that almost anyone in any career, whatever, can like, struggle with. Like very like human Yes. Universal things like trusting yourself. Being afraid of failure. And then also just ask, asks you to like exercise this creative piece that I feel like a lot of people are very like cut off from myself included at times.

So it asks you to like really? Mm-hmm. Welcome that creative piece of you. Yeah. What's coming up for me around this is just the element of being seen. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like again, with mind melt, I mean it was. So silly coming up with those words, but I think for some people it really would've been, you know, yeah, why did I think of that word?

Or, you know, just that totally instant judgment. Totally. And fear of being seen by others. 100%. And I do think that that is a barrier for a lot of people when it comes to improv, is that self-judgment that happens of like, the first thing that comes to mind. Like, oh no, I shouldn't say that. That's not, that's not gonna be good for the scene, or good for whatever.

Or like, that's not gonna make sense. Then also the fear of like, not just that self-judgment, but like, what if I say this? And other people are like, oh, that's really weird. So yeah. And not just in improv, but like just conversationally. Mm-hmm. I feel that's social anxiety. I feel like people could relate to like, oh, I'm not gonna say that because that'll be weird.

I think that comes yes, in many settings. Mm-hmm. And particularly with improv. So improv kind of, it can start with improv, but then kind of like expand beyond that. Where you can maybe get this like sense of freedom and acceptance for like, okay, I can say some things that might not make sense. Mm-hmm. I don't know if this is making sense.

Oh no, it's, well, and I just had this thought of, it's so interesting, so many of us write, we'll use movement to start our day or to end our day. Mm-hmm. Right? Whether that's running, whether that's hiking, dance, you name it. But it's interesting with improv 'cause so much of it is this like throat shocker piece or even just using your hands to communicate.

Yeah. And how that does transfer over mm-hmm. Into other careers maybe. I don't know. Yeah. I'm, I'm gonna be thinking about this, Hannah. Yeah. And we're also communicating with improv in like, really. Different ways where like the communication can be. So you're just playing pretend with people and you can play a character that's like very bizarre.

And so like you do, you communicate and you express things that are also like. Like just, you don't do that in every day. We usually don't play like when you're a kid, you'll like be with your children friend and hopefully a lot of us would like pretend and like play house or do impressions and we, we so don't do that, I think as adults and this asks you to do that too.

So that I think that's that like creative piece that we could be cut off from. Yeah. And kind of, I think we maybe have talked about before, just this. Idea of as you age, you develop more of this critical mind. Mm-hmm. That can evaluate and that's just part of growth. Uh, you know, your natural brain growth.

'cause when you're little, you don't have that same capacity to judge, like, my artwork, how does it compare to my peers, you know? Mm-hmm. But there is an element that we need to. Have space from that critical brain. Yes. As adults. And yes, improv can be such a fun way to access that. Mm. It really can. And I it.

Yes. Yes. I love that. And I think that's one of the reasons why in doing like improv jams, it has felt so important to try to cultivate with intention or with ritual right at the beginning, like this sense of safety. Mm-hmm. So that the women that we've been doing it with are feeling like, okay. Like, yes, we all have these judgements.

We're afraid of these things from ourself and from other people, but right now we're trying to create this space where like we can, those judgements mm-hmm. Can maybe be less loud or something. Yeah. And it does make me wanna say something that I find important that is very related to improv and this kind of like, this lack of like, maybe filter, I guess is what we're talking about.

And it's something that in my journey I've learned a lot from like. In particular, the folks that I was with at Horse Teeth Improv, that was the pier in Fort Collins. I do think that there's like a small caveat when we talk about improv and this freedom and. Yeah, no filters or whatever to say that we can't let improv just be like a space where like you can say whatever you want and it's totally fine 'cause it's improv.

We could talk for a super long time about the culture and community. Mm-hmm. That improv is in and has been in and it's, I think been a very. Male dominated space and like white dominated space and there. So I just wanna say that something that I have learned that's really, really important with improv is also, yeah, you don't have to like be judging yourself for the things that you're doing, the silly things that you're doing.

It is still possible that like biases and things that could possibly cause harm can come out in an improv scene. I'm so glad you're bringing this up, Michelle. And I wanted to talk more about this. Yeah. Yes. Let's dive deeper. 'cause this was one of our questions Great. About how I brought this up. We never actually followed through with it, but James, a caster special on HBO, I haven't seen it.

I have to watch it. It's called Heckler's Welcome. Mm. And he kind of talks about this like relationship between the comedian and the audience. Yeah. And one of the things that he brought up was seeing some comedian perform and there was like a heckler or something and uh, the comedian responded with comedy always.

Comes with good intentions. Mm. And he's kind of pushing back on that. Mm-hmm. So this question of in what ways can comedy actually become hurtful? Mm-hmm. And where, you know, where do we draw the line? Mm-hmm. Recognizing that that line is gonna be different for different people, but yeah. Mm-hmm. I do appreciate that.

In our. Improv groups that you have brought this up and even created a space where if you blurt something out and you're like, oh wait, I didn't like what, how that felt coming out. Mm-hmm. That we could pause and name that. So yeah, that's, that's a nice catch and that's a huge thing that I've learned, and I failed to mention this in my journey with improv, but I feel like.

It is a massively important piece of this journey that I've had, and it was a class that I took during like the height of COVID with another person from the improv troupe that I was in here in Fort Collins, and it was from Bird City Improv, and it was this class that talked about improv and social justice and how we can like use improv to move social justice forward.

How we can. Interrupt scenes that we feel are getting possibly harmful or how we might be feeling like powerful. Oh, I don't know. Yes. So important. So it's one of the best things that I've done in my improv journey. So I don't know why I forgot to mention that, but yeah, bird City Improv. Please check it out.

Mm-hmm. Because I just, I think there are very few conversations when it comes to comedy. And particularly improv, which is improv, opened yourself up to saying a lot of like shit. So just the importance of, oh my gosh, we can love improv. We can do it. We can. And then we could make a mistake and we could like correct it and be like, wait, like you were saying, Michelle, hold on.

I didn't like how that came out. Or, oh, I'm feeling like maybe this character is, we're being a little mean to this character and this character doesn't have a lot of power and I don't wanna perpetuate this narrative where like, I'm playing this woman and I'm feeling like I'm really kind of dumbing her down in a way.

And I feel like that's maybe my own internal, like sexism coming out or something. Like naming those things. And so not just doing like improv is always fine no matter what. Whatever you say is totally welcome. Yeah, mostly true. And we can still have conversations about like not wanting to cause harm.

Mm-hmm. So those are things, major things that I learned from Bird City Improv and our group leader at Horse Teeth improv too. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. So when you did this class with Bird City, were there specific takeaways that you had about how to confront those biases in improv? One of the big things that I recall, and this is like for comedy in general, and I, I want comedy.

The, the stuff that I enjoy that makes me laugh, it punches up and not down. So if you're looking at like some punches, say that again. Punch. So you wanna, with your comedy punch up, don't punch down. So if you think about punchline or whatever, we could think of plenty of jokes that are like punching down the punchline is perpetuating some kind of dumb blonde joke, a dumb blonde joke.

You're, I love that phrase, punch up. Yeah. But you wanna punch up, so like, instead of using the punchline and you know, like putting down and making the comedy be about people with less power in whatever sense, punch up, make the comedy be about. The people with more power or calling out and like using irony or whatever to talk about like how silly it is that we punch down on this population.

I'm not sure I'm speaking so vaguely about this, but I hope that that is making sense. Example, maybe an example would be helpful for listeners. Yeah, I mean like, okay, Nanette. On Netflix. Hannah Grigsby's. Okay. I have not seen that. Yes, you have. I know you have, but sorry. My, uh, my, a energy just came out.

Apologies to the listeners. I have an example too. Okay. Yeah. But she talks about in a, a running joke and comedy that lesbians don't laugh. They don't think it's funny. Mm-hmm. They don't like, they don't have a good sense of humor. And she's like, it's an ironclad thing because if you don't laugh, then you're proving the point.

Mm. So it's like these jokes that become part of the narrative of society that actually end up further putting down a group of people that is already marginalized. Mm. Mm-hmm. Good example. Yes. Yes. An example that I'm thinking of is I'm, so, I've been rewatching a lot of parks and rec and ugh, I just classic.

Love that show. So much. So good. I love Leslie. No so much. And I'm thinking of one of my favorite parts and the episode is called Hunting Trip. And like i, I, I can get so specific. I'm pretty sure I wrote a paper about this episode in college. Yes you did. I truly did. I truly did. So hunting Trip, Leslie? No.

Oh God. It's so comedic. The way that they do this. They are like making a point about sexism and Leslie is being interviewed by this like Arc Ranger who is saying like. Leslie has said that she made a hunting mistake and accidentally shot her gun when it shouldn't have gone off. And she's like taking the fall for this, even though she didn't do it.

And this hunter is like, I find a lot of women like, have trouble with like just perpetuating this, like sex sexism. And then there's this whole series of, um, takes where Leslie Knope and Amy Poer is playing into that stereotype. She was like. I just, I'm on my period, so my gun went off. Like I got a new bra and it popped open and then my gun went off and I, like, I was putting on lipstick.

I was so like, that's like this perpetuating of the stereotype in a way that heightens it. To be. It's so silly that like Yeah, like the message of it is like this is this, this is ridiculous. Exactly. So that's why it's a punch up and it's punch up because it's, yes. It's highlighting how ridiculous these stereotypes are and so yes.

That's an example of like punching up. Yeah. One of my favorite ones from Parks and Rec two that I always laugh my head is that she breaks her wrist or something and they're like, why didn't you like go to the doctor? Or something, like, why couldn't you get it treated? And she was like. I did, but uh, having a wrist was considered a pre existing condition.

It's, and then that's like kind of punching up to the medical system, the medical system. 100%, yes. So yeah, that, like, that gave me a little bit of language, clearly a little bit because I can't talk incredibly eloquently about it. But learning that from Bird City improv really like, helped me understand why I like the comedy that I like how we can in improv.

Punch up and not down, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like that's pretty important. Yeah. So our, our last question for you in this section Yeah. Is how do you feel like comedy compares to other forms of creativity and performance? Like just the ex, like what do you get that's different from comedy versus other forms?

Man, I guess one thing. That comes to mind because I think with any kind of expression you can. You're creating or you have this opportunity to create a message, right? You can do that with a song, you can do that with a piece of art. You can communicate some kind of message, and I think with comedy, you can communicate a message and do it in a way that is just delightful.

Like you can incite such feelings of delight and joy. And also communicate like a really important message in that way. Yeah, I guess that's making me think of like, yeah, like Parks and Rec. I love the messages that are communicated in watching these people that I love and laughing my ass off and being like, hell yeah.

Like Leslie No is such a feminist and I love that. Like, so I feel like that is one of the ways, is like clearly Yeah, like comedy, you think of like laughter and happiness and, and so that element is just a piece of the message that you're saying. It creates shared community through laughter. Like we're going through something.

Difficult or even just like this is random and we're just the community that's created through laughter versus through sitting in the pain together. Mm-hmm. And it's, I think both of those are valuable, but I think there is something really special. Like, you know, in that example I gave about the joke, like it really resonates with me because we're all like struggling in this world of.

Our medical system doesn't always have our back, but just to know that like there's somebody else out there that sees this, that laughs through it with me feels, yeah. I feel less alone. It does. Yes. I do think that it, yeah, it creates a kind of community and it, yeah. You can talk about painful, painful things through humor and laughter.

We see it all the time. Late night shows, even like internet memes and things. We're using comedy all the time to talk about how. Horrible. A lot of us are finding like mm-hmm. The current state of affairs, comedy is everywhere. Talking about that and while it's very important to like yeah, be looking at these topics in like a serious lens and maybe not getting.

All of your messages and ideas and information from like only comedic sources like it, it provides this kind of lightness and like we're all in this together and like, what Yes the hell can we even do except for laugh at the these atrocities? Mm-hmm. That we don't have insurance, like we don't, or like that insurance isn't.

Yeah. Paying for things that it should definitely pay for, like as going just with that example. So I do feel like that is special when it comes to comedy. I also just wanna say it's invigorating to do improv and front of people and have people like be able to make people laugh. Mm. Like just as like kind of a, mm-hmm.

A less like, I don't know, like social commentary, but kind of like personal, maybe selfish reason. I love to make people laugh. It makes me feel so good and so powerful to be like, even when I'm just like with my partner and making him laugh. Um, but yeah, if you are like getting up and being silly and brave and ridiculous and people are like with you and laughing, it feels so good.

Oh, it's so fun. Yeah. Yeah. Well, even good. Kelly and I were reflecting going into this episode of our episode with Chelsea about trauma and breaking the stress cycle and it hits on several points. 'cause it's creativity, it's belly laughter, it's being in community with people in a safe space and it can be like active.

You're like moving around for it too. So there's just like so much that is really helpful for breaking that stress cycle. And I think one other thing that I wanna say is this just really incredible. I do think that almost all, maybe all kind of art form, like making something that did not exist previously is just, I do believe that that is like magic.

Um mm-hmm. Whether that's a painting, a song, and like in improv you are just like, we're, there's nothing here. Where people standing in a room or on a stage, but we're gonna create something and create this story or character or like, and it, it's just, I find that yeah, like truly just like magical and so significant and meaningful.

So I feel like that's a piece of it too. And that's with all art, but, and comedy and like, I find it really, really cool to like see. What's in people's heads? What do you find funny? What's coming to mind for you? It's like, it's very cool, like, and I've gone to some like open mics even and seeing some people, and I've done this, I've done this one time, Uhhuh, like, you go up on a stage and you're like, I created like a little five minute.

Set and here's something from my brain that I just thought was kind of funny and I'm going to share this. And so I'm, that is so brave, Hannah. Oh, that's another story. Never done such a thing. I left the bar 'cause I was too scared and then I ran back. It was very dramatic. I ran back and then I, and entered the bar and then they called my name.

Like I got there right in time and like did it, and it was like very mediocre but very special that I did. And then I went home and I cried. Oh, Hannah, I'm saying it was so. I'm saying this as a short film for you. Oh shit. Ooh, that's a good idea. That's a great idea, Michelle. That's a good, good idea. Oh, I love that.

But yeah, so like just the bravery and the magic of like whether or not this is gonna land or be funny as long as it's not like we've talked about like harmful. Yeah. I don't wanna be causing harm, but like. Going to an open mic and watching people even flop. I'm kind of, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but some people are like, oh, I hate it.

It's so awkward. But I'm like, but I love it. Like they're up there and they're being brave and I'm seeing what's in their head and what they are finding funny, and I'm just like, hell yeah. Like just say it. Just, it's beautiful. You're creating something. You're sharing something. And it so this inspiring.

Can Please do we have go open mic night, you guys? Yes. I wanna go. So I'm not saying I'm gonna get on stage, that's, but I do. I haven't been to one in years. Mm-hmm. It's beautiful to see what people have to offer, whether or not we find it like. Quote unquote success. That's it. Oh, I'm so over the quote unquote.

Success. Success was so fucking over that if no one laughs, whatever mine was, it was very mediocre. It was very mediocre. But I did it and I'm so proud, and some people laughed and I was like, great. And I hope people were just like, look at this weird girl and the things she thinks is funny. That's awesome.

Why not share it? Aw, seriously snappy. Yes, for sure. Yes.

All right, Hannah, we are on the ritual section. Mm-hmm. And yeah, I'm excited to dive into this with you. Yeah. So first question is. What are some examples of solo prov exercises Mm. That people can incorporate into their daily lives? Oh my gosh. Solo prov. Solo prov. Especially for those that might just be getting started or, you know.

Yeah. For listeners, just wanna let you know, I have not been to one of these improv hangouts yet. Mm-hmm. But I have been wanting to. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Any solo prov? Such a good question. I feel like I should clarify just in case people Yes. Don't. Know what that means, but these would be exercises that you could do on your own.

Mm-hmm. So you're not improv with somebody else. Yes. Thank you. Okay. That people wouldn't think of this typically as improv. I don't think I typically think of it as improv, but one thing that is coming to mind is journaling without kind of prompt or intention or even a prompt and just seeing where it goes.

But it's that the exercise of like, where is my mind gonna go and I'm gonna let my mind kind of take me. Where it wants and the practice of like not trying not to judge that or maybe catching yourself because I mean, I do this when I journal where I'm journaling and then I'm like, oh, but I'm judging. So just trying to be aware.

Totally. Yes. So I guess it's not necessarily an improv exercise, but it's more of this like this increasing your ability to catch the judgment that comes up. And one nice exercise could be like riding and catching it and being like, oh, hi. Go away. Yeah. G gently. I'm gonna invite you to step back. Can I add something Hannah?

Yeah. And for Ritual Fam, 'cause I did this during COVID and it was life changing and I had to not care what people thought of me. Mm-hmm. I would take my dog Mason on a walk and I would just talk out loud Oh. To myself pretty much the whole time. Mm-hmm. And people would be like, Hmm, I don't know if she's on the phone or not.

And I like did not give a shit. I was just like in my flow talking out loud and every, it was so powerful. Every Monday I choose a new theme for the week and I would just let it drop in totally organically. So I think for listeners, sometimes that's writing, but sometimes it is just using our voice, talking, even if we're by ourselves.

Totally. That reminds me like sometimes within the past week I will be by myself, home alone. Mm-hmm. Like in my car and I'm like talking or like singing out loud to myself. I'll like make up these little silly, dumb songs, um, shingle. And sometimes they're about my cat. I'll come home. We have to post a picture of Rosie on the website.

Oh yes. But I'll sing these little songs about my cat and sometimes they rhyme and I'm like, oh, cool. I made a rhyme. And sometimes they don't. But it's just this freedom of like, I'm just gonna be so silly and like not judge myself and just be, I don't know, I kind of wanna just rosy the cat. It's just, and I, I think though, for sometimes for people, it is hard even to create that space by yourself.

And so I do feel like I can do that at times and maybe improv helps with that. But to ma maybe even just like try that out and be like, what feelings come up for you? If you're just gonna like in your car, sing a song about whatever the hell comes to your mind or you're feeling or you're beloved pet, like, try doing that and maybe see what comes up.

Because I think for some people a lot of self-judgment might come up and then. Just be like, oh, that's so interesting. But if it doesn't just be like, cool, I can just, I can just do these things and say what's on my mind and it is so weird and it doesn't have to make sense. And that's fine. Yeah. We're allowed to be silly.

And express things by ourselves or not. That don't make sense. Yeah. Or that aren't like these really coherent, intelligent thoughts. You can just go blah, blah, blah, blah. I love my cat and that's wonderful. Yeah. I, it doesn't have to make sense. That's, does that make sense? Great reminder. I like that. Yeah.

Like singing a song or like doing a dance. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I was even just thinking about too, maybe acting out a character. Yeah. Like do like, just do like vacuum, but do it as like whatever person pops into your head. Mm-hmm. You know, that could be another way. Yeah. Making those household responsibilities a little bit more interesting.

Yeah. Um, I don't know how valuable this would be for some people, but I sometimes think about. Like playing the Sims. Sometimes I'll do that. What? And I'm currently, yesterday I was like, I want to make a Little Mermaid girl, and then I can just go on there and then I'm creating this story about this person that doesn't exist that's here.

And I can be like, oh, and there's this, and I'm just like being creative and letting myself make a person. Mm-hmm. And not, I don't know, judge it. And just that's one way that is, it is kind of creative. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, just fully let your imagination just like take you where it wants to go. Mm.

Mm-hmm. Fred Sinatra was one of my favorite sims of all time. He was a combination of Fred Astaire and Frank Sinatra. Sinatra. He was Baja. Unfortunately, he let himself go and then perished in a fire. Due to that, glad maybe the house didn't have any doors. Who knows? Oh, crazy. That reminds me what a wonderful improv character that could be.

Fred Sinatra. Yeah. Fred Sinatras. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could just bring that in to a scene. I'll ask the next question as Fred Sinatra. Oh, great. Okay. Fred, what about exercises that people can do in a big groove? I'm gonna tap dance in the middle of the question that maybe aren't too intimidating. Ooh, wow, Fred, that is such a good question.

And let me say I'm a big fan. Well, thank you darling. Is it just me or is it the moonlight that it's making me look so beautiful tonight? Oh, Fred, stop. But keep going. Okay. Improv. Okay. Big group things. Okay. So many things. Um, you could literally, if you needed something maybe more accessible, like you could go on YouTube and you could like watch a who's line and be like, what games are they playing?

Let's play these games. I did that with my friends in high school and even before then, we would be like, we would play, whose line is it anyway, like play improv games. So if you wanted to just like look online, I feel like that's a more well known. One. And also speaking of like punching up and punching down, I will say caveat, it's not all punches up when you are watching a lot of improv.

A lot of improv. So anything I say, just take that with a grain of salt. But yeah, you can get ideas from like watching those, those little like short form games. You can also, there are things like that you could look up like improv games online and stuff. But one of my, I mean we did mind meld that is. One, not going down a list of all of the improv games that I can think of.

I'm trying to think of like how to answer this. There's so many. I think that's good just to know, like there's a lot of little games out there that people, you can just look up some games and it's like easy. I mean, even before our. Podcast launch. I did. Oh, that was so nice, Michelle. Yeah. Tell them, one of the ones that you taught me was you just dance and you alternate who's leading the dance.

Mm-hmm. And it's just, yeah, that was just a fun way to kind of get shake out a little bit. And the nerves before Totally. The performance, that was really important. That really helped get the, yeah, the nervous. Like little jiggles out. Totally. Yeah. So like, yeah, taking turns, leading a dance is a great one.

One thing that I feel like people do with their friends that I feel like people wouldn't think of as improv, but I do in particular with one of my really good friends, we'll just do like little bits. You're just like joking around and doing little bits, and then you kind of like heighten and you make it so silly.

Part of improv too. Mm-hmm. Like even just like joking around with friends and stuff. Maybe take it a step further and be like, okay, who are these characters that are in the bits? There are lots of games that you could do and play. I think to start, maybe ask a friend if they wanna be really goofy and like, like pretend and see what happens.

Yeah. A friend that you really trust and be like, if we were going to just play, pretend and use our imagination, so what would we. Pretend to do. Mm-hmm. And then let's just pretend to be those people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm thinking of like playing like mermaids in the pool with my sister, and I'm thinking of when it snowed outside, we would be like, we're travelers and we're trying to survive the winter.

Like just, I mean, that's. Yeah. And we used to do it all the time. Yes. Mm-hmm. So you could just do that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I say just do that. Like it's really easy, like there's so many barriers for people, but like it could be that simple of just, just do what you used to do when you were little. Well, there's also board games that you kind of do a little bit more of being a character in them.

Sheriff of Nottingham is one of them. We played that before. Oh yeah. Yeah, we did. Um, but I recently, I was visiting my sister-in-law and her kiddos and like family and. We played mafia, but we like made different storylines for each of them and it just was like so silly and fun. It was like each one we kind of just made.

You know, there's the first example that I had was that Jay, the pizza thief. So like Jay, like everyone was like pieces of pizza. And then one person was the Jay who was like trying to eat the pizza from the Michelle who wanted the pizza for lunch. And then one person was like a suspicious smell that like wafted over the pizza, my God.

And deter Jay from eating it. I love that. So that's so good. And then we changed it up every time. Yes. And we created like stories and like at the end of it, my niece was just like, that was like my favorite game I've ever played this show. It was so, yeah. So nice. Just like a little bit of extra like silliness and like, well kids creativity.

You forget that. Yeah. That makes me think of if you have children in your life, play with them and play, pretend and see what they wanna do. And then just play, pretend with them and see what happens. Like that's, I mean, that's. I work with kids for one of my jobs and like, it's like, oh, that's improv. I'm just like playing with this little elephant and I'm like, I'm doing this.

What are you doing? Like, and then one thing that I also wanna say too is like we're speaking about improv in a way that I absolutely love, like making an accessible to everybody. And there comes a point if you're wanting to like do improv in a more, like maybe perform it, like actually perform it and like really work that muscle.

Like there are places that you can go and then like learn about various, I don't know, kind of like tools and exercises to get more of a, I don't wanna say formal, but like there is, I wanna say that the way that I have been involved in improv has been like a foot in Just do it. It's as easy as just like playing pretend with your friends and.

A foot in, like I've taken some improv like workshops and have learned from people that have done it more extensively than I have. And then there, there are like, there is a learning that you can do about ways to build a scene and play characters and things. So that's not to say that you have to go that route to do it, because that's one of the things that I talked about.

I love, you could just do it and there's like a. I don't form. Yeah. Like I think about it like meditation, you know, like there's a formal practice that you can cultivate and learn. Mm-hmm. And then there's informal just having the mindfulness mindset in your day-to-day life too. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You can eventually, you can learn different scene structures and different games and different, I'm hesitate.

Hesitating to talk about it too much because I do think that there's maybe this kind of, I don't know, like kind of elitist attitude where you get into like this like improv snob area maybe, maybe. Um, I'm sure it exists. I think it exists where it's like, oh, well do you know how to, you know, the game of the scene and all of these, these things that are wonderful parts of improv and can make for like a really then cool, interesting scene where, you know, people who have this kind of background and are able to use these tools and build it and that is wonderful.

And that's probably what the professionals like do and know about. And you don't have to go that route. You can also just be very goofy and I'm glad you added that in Hannah. Yeah. Depending on where people are entering into this conversation. Yeah. And where you're entering in and where you wanna go ultimately.

Mm-hmm. Because you can go the route and sometimes I consider wanting to know more in that area of like, I really wanna get more knowledge about how to do improv and, but I don't even wanna say, do it well. Mm-hmm. And I'm using quotes because. Yeah, I, it just gets into a whole, oh, well there's good improv, and then there's just like, whatever.

No. 'cause I think it's all very valuable. It's all valuable. I love that. For final question around this improv mindset, Hannah, and how. How can we bring that in when we think about ritual and ceremony? Mm-hmm. How can we bring this mindset in? I feel like one of the biggest pieces that we've been talking about is this quieting of self-judgment.

And we talk about like, ritual can be this very thoughtful, very intentional thing, and improv is sometimes not as. I don't know, like it's thoughtful. You can be thoughtful about it. And part of improv is too, being like, don't think too much. Like just do it. So balancing the intention, the thoughtfulness with the freedom to like, what's feeling good, what's coming to mind?

How can I work on not judging myself or doing some kind of ritual or thinking some kind of way that is just come like coming up for me? Mm-hmm. I don't know if that answers the question and that would be so present. It seems like an improv. Yeah. Like there's this aspect of presence. Definitely. And I think that really relates to being in ritual and ceremony.

Yeah. I so agree. I think it does take a lot of presence and a lot of like getting outside of your mind. Maybe. Yeah. And I was, I was just talking to a friend about social anxiety in groups and kind of leaving and, and playing over, like, what, you know, what I said? What, how did this come across to people?

And I feel like that could be almost like something, part of that ritual of getting together in a group is reading a safe space to say, Hey, you know, whatever you come with is okay. Like, speak your, speak up. And we're gonna welcome that. And if, you know, if you end up saying something that you're like, oh, that didn't land right.

Or there was a bias coming out, naming that. Mm-hmm. But I know that when I've left our improv groups mm-hmm. I don't go over what I said mm-hmm. In a critical way. But I do when I leave other social groups. Mm. Fascinating. Michelle. So the improv, it's like created this sa, this safety in that space. Mm-hmm.

To be like, here is where we are allowed to have that vulnerability, where then sometimes even in social situations, it's like, oh, no, no, no. You have to be a little bit more like buttoned up and saying the wrong or the right thing. Where improv sometimes it can create this like, oh, like this freedom. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. I'm really glad we're talking about this and I think it would be fascinating. To think more and for listeners to reflect on. Yeah. How can we co-create spaces that are like the improv group? Totally. Mm-hmm. Well, a lot of food for thought lot. Really thought I'm feeling fed. Yeah. I mean, well, I actually, I dinner side.

Full dessert side, empty right now. Oh. So we're gonna keep talking to Hannah A. Little bit about comedy and improv, and we're gonna hear. The full story of mm-hmm. The open mic night. Oh, yes, we are. You're gonna wanna hear that story, everybody, so stay tuned. Patreon, stick around and everyone else have a magical time.

Yes. All right, talk soon. Goodbye. Bye. Alright. Ritual fam, I'm sure you can tell we had an absolute. Blast talking with Hannah. We laughed so much, but we also feel really inspired by this conversation about this unique way of tapping into our intuition, getting out of the self-critical mindset. Just so many good nuggets there, and we know it can feel a little bit intimidating, but we hope that you give some of these ideas a try.

Whether you can rope your friends into doing some improv with you, whether you're now inspired to take a class or you wanna do some of the solo prov ideas that we came up with. If you do give any of this a try, let us know how it went. We'd love to hear from you and Patreon members. You are definitely gonna wanna stick around for our extended conversation with Hannah.

If you're not on the Patreon yet, what are you doing? This is definitely, this is the episode. Okay. The story about Hannah's open mic night is. One of my favorite stories we've ever had on this podcast, and I'm still trying to convince her to make a short film about it. Fingers crossed. But it is so hilarious, but also really heartfelt and inspiring at the same time.

So you definitely want to be on the Patreon to hear that one. And wherever you are, whatever you're doing. And have a magical time. Goodbye

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