Michelle:
Ritual Sisters, the podcast where your hosts and fellow travelers, Michelle and Kelly, explore the ways that ritual can help you feel better through the ups and downs of life. So let's take a deep breath and start this journey together.

Kelly:
Hello everyone, welcome to March the Messy Middle.

Michelle:
Messy Middle and we have a guest today!

Audible Laughter

Kelly:
We are so lucky that Chelsea is joining us again on the podcast. Chels, how are you? How are you doing?

Chelsea:
I'm doing all right. I think messy middle is an appropriate phrase right now for life.

Michelle:
We're all feeling it. But if you don't remember, we have Chelsea Kline, who was our guest on episodes two and three. We did a two-parter with her in season one. Yes. So we're excited to have you back because we talked a lot about trauma and our guest for March works with Bruce Perry of the Neurosequential Model. So we just thought it would be a lovely time to chat with you.

Chelsea:
Yes, thank you for having me back on the pod. I loved Michelle's episode of the Neurosequential Model with Dr. Bruce Perry. I've had the pleasure of meeting him a few times and learning - I'm not trained in that model, but I've learned a lot about that model, about him, about his work, about trauma through his work. So yeah, I'm always here to talk about anything, trauma, resilience, and life.

Kelly:
Aw, yes!

Michelle:
And we just did a little ritual that we'll probably talk about a bit later for processing messiness. So we're just coming back from some fun ritual times.

Kelly:
Hmmmm it was powerful, so we're not going to talk about that right now?

Michelle:
No…we are building suspense. So we're all feeling the messy middle. We just had a crazy windstorm this week.

Kelly:
So many trees down in our town.

Chelsea:
I was off work for a day and a half. They'd shut down the campus.

Kelly:
Yeah, I was very disoriented with the wind. I mean, I told you both I woke up at 1 am and just looked outside. But I felt so out of control because it was like there's nothing I can do right now except to see what's happening outside.

Chelsea:
Well, it's interesting. I was telling you both that I was out of training earlier in the week and one of the slides we kept coming back to was a girl in the wind and it kept saying, you can't control the windy day. And then I had like had that in my brain all week and then we had like tornado winds. I was like, you can't control a windy day.

Audible Laughter

Michelle:
It's just the example of spring that we've talked about - we were all saying we don't like spring as a season. And it's just this transition period where sometimes it's not pleasant at all.

Kelly:
No, I think it brings up a lot of anxiety for me, springtime.

Chelsea:
Yeah, and kind of just that resistance we were talking about and resistance to the wind and when we like let go and accept it, what happens. So yeah, it was a good one today.

Kelly:
It was good. Michelle, how are you doing in this March messy middle time?

Michelle:
Pretty much the same. Well, I told you how I mean, Kelly, I told you, Chelsea, this is gonna be incredible news for you. Last week, I woke up in the middle of the night, and I had the worst cramps ever. And it was like two hours where I couldn't go back to sleep. And I feel like it was really that embodiment of the stress. And it was after our soundbath.

Kelly:
Yeah. I was saying that sometimes, yeah, those sound baths can bring up things. Yeah, your body can definitely have a response.

Michelle:
Just feeling it.

Chelsea:
Hmm. Interesting. I crashed out at my doctor's appointment a couple of weeks ago. Like I cried. No, as the kids say, I'm around teenagers too often.

Michelle:
I've heard them say this, but I didn't know that was like a universal thing crashing out.

Chelsea:
I crashed out. Because, yeah, just like, crying, kind of like…

Kelly:
Unwell

Chelsea:
Just unwell. Thank you. Yeah, unwell. Not great.

Michelle:
Do you know it too, Kelly?

Kelly:
Sure do!

Chelsea:
Kelly is cultured. So convincing. No, I literally was holding so much stress. And just there's been so much going on in the world and at work and just in life. And a couple of weeks ago, I finally took a mental health day off work. I was like, I need to just not go into work today. And I had a doctor's appointment that I went to and I’ve just been holding in a lot. And one of those things like you know you need to cry, but you just haven't…

Kelly:
Sometimes the song doesn't even do it. And you're like, what?

Chelsea:
You’re do for a cry like I had been I got to a place and I mean I hold a lot of trauma through work all the time like I'm pretty good at that piece but it was just coming like so much stress and so I was getting to a point which for me I'm like we're going red zone - I was starting to feel numb and so I was like no we're like getting into the numb place and then it was like I need to cry but I couldn't. Finally take a mental health day off work. I had a medical appointment. It was this different hospital. Like I'd never been to this place. I get all turned around. I get lost. I'm running late. Finally I think I get to the place and the person says, oh no, you're on the South side. You need to go to the North side. I lost it. And started crying and the lady, the nurse who was at the desk was like, honey, we'll call them and tell them that you're running late. And I said, it's not even about this. It's about all the other things. And then I, of course, was like, couldn't stop crying. It was like once the tears started coming, I literally just could not stop crying to the point where I got to where I needed to be. And the nurse was like, do you need a hug? And I was like yeah, it was so sad.

Kelly:
Shoutout, can we give a shoutout to the nurses.

Chelsea:
I really did need that hug, especially someone who lives far away from family - it was hard, in the moment I was embarrassed because it was in public, but once I finally stopped crying. It was one of those things that like oh my gosh I needed that so much like I needed to just like accept what was happening and release it and not keep - I felt like I was just spending, we talked about this earlier today too, like spending so much time resisting and trying to hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, and not like doing my, normally like I'm better about doing my, you know, finishing my stress cycles and taking care of myself. But it just felt like these last couple months have just been a lot. And so I couldn't keep up as well as I typically do.

And yeah, your body will do what it needs, regardless of what time it is or if you're in public or any of that. And so when I think about the messy middle, I think about where my head and heart have been. Yeah, definitely feeling that. So yeah, I feel like I'm moving through it better now - just starting to move through it better.

Kelly:
I'm so glad you had that moment, Chels, where you got to have that cry. You got to have that nourishing experience with that nurse. I heard something recently and I've been trying to implement it where it's everyone you interact with, imagine it were a sibling or a grandparent. So even today when we got our sammys and the guy's telling me about his pain and I'm like, you know I really want to take time with this cashier - and just treating everyone you interact with in that really just loving friendly way. Because I think we all need it right now.

Chelsea:
Yeah, I really did in that moment too and I was really grateful.

Michelle:
I was just listening to, do you guys know the, it's so weird, but, you know, J Cole, the rapper?

Chelsea:
Yes.

Michelle:
And have you heard his song, Snow on the Bluff? It's so good. But one of the lines in it, it's kind of about the learning process of like, I mean, essentially becoming woke is what he's talking about and like people being harsh towards other people. But he was saying one of the lines, I feel like we all need to treat each other like children, like the expectation that you can grow and change and how you would be so loving towards a child that's learning.

Kelly:
That’s so beautiful, okay, I need to listen to the song.

Chelsea:
And patient, right? Like there's a level of patience I find myself having with the kiddos in my life that I don't always offer myself for other adults in the world. So I like that.

Michelle:
Go listen to it. It's so good.

Kelly:
I can’t wait!

Michelle:
Do you want to check in?

Audible Laughter

Chelsea:
Kelly, how are you?

Kelly:
Well, thank you for asking you two. You know, it's so interesting. I'm coming off of a really special trip. We just got to celebrate my dad's 70th surprise birthday in New York City. And it felt so special because last year he had a heart attack in New York City. And so to come back and just see him healthy - and see him so loved on. I was telling one of my cousins, my cousin Jeff, you know, it breaks my heart that we wait until funerals to give these beautiful eulogies and to tell people how much we love them when we need to do that now. And it was just so special that my dad got to hear those messages, whether it was through a little side conversation, or I know people wrote him really beautiful cards and just to have him have that moment.

I mean, I really don't have words for how special that was. And it kind of illustrated to me when I was in that place last year in the hospital, it was so traumatic. Like you, there's these gifts in the messy middle. I feel in the messy middle in a whole new way right now in my life, more professionally than personally, but that was such a great example for me of it does get better, and it's going to be okay. Yeah, so that's where I'm at.

Chelsea:
I think it's so tough to really be aware of the gifts when you're in the messy middle. Like Hindsights 2020. It's so hard when you're in it, but I do think gratitude has been something that has helped me so much in life and in the work I do - and so trying to be mindful and find the gratitude and something and validate the hard - and the messiness. But to find that, like, what is the universe gifting me with, even if right now it doesn't feel like a gift?

Kelly:
Chels, you're in my head. Literally today, I had my journal open. I was like, oh, what's my journal prompt today? And it was just a simple,what am I grateful for - today? And it was so centering. Like gratitude is so centering. Yeah. And I like how you said that. Also validate the hard, validate the messy.

Michelle:
Well, we do have a couple of voicemails from a listener on the topic of messy middle. So we will see what she has to say.

Kelly:
Ohhhhh can't wait.

Kristin:
Hey Kelly and Michelle, this is Kristin calling from Indianapolis. When I heard the question, what is something you're working through or learning right now? I immediately thought of the word identity. I recently gave birth to my second kiddo in October and I'm now back to work as of the new year and I'm just learning how to juggle life as a mother, someone that's working, and being a good partner. And sometimes it feels at the end of the day like there's very little left for me. And I'm trying to find that balance and still trying to figure out what my own individual needs are during this time in my life. And what my place is, what my new goals are, what I'm excited about…something that I'm still really contemplating.

Okay, a moment where I have enjoyed feeling seen recently. This feels a little bit more surface level than, you know, something I would normally think of, but actually happened last week. I had a friend come up with a whole spreadsheet actually and wardrobe and shopping plan to take me shopping sometime soon in the spring. I had expressed to her that I was just feeling kind of uncomfortable in my postpartum body and I'm having a hard time finding anything to wear and just feeling not very confident in myself. I've never really cared a ton about clothes, but I just don't feel great right now. And she took that and heard it and turned it into an actionable item. I just felt really loved and seen in that moment.

Kelly:
Wow. That was so sweet to hear about. Shout out, Kristen. Thank you so much for calling in. And yes, I love that example of your friend just really listening to an insecurity, a vulnerability, that you're experiencing and turning it around and creating an Excel sheet. I'm like, wow, that is above and beyond. And yeah, that really inspired me to not only really listen, of course, when friends or family are sharing vulnerabilities, but how helpful it is to take that action step without having to be like, hey, can you help me in this way? Just you taking action. So thank you for sharing that with us.

Michelle:
Yeah, and I feel like it kind of ties in with the first message too of trying to find space for yourself, you know, that sometimes you have to speak up to find that space.

Kelly:
It's so true.

Chelsea:
I think in the messy middle, sometimes new identities are emerging or like a new form of self, maybe not completely new, but like new parts of us are forming through the messy middle. And so giving ourselves space for that, I think is really important. And how lovely to have a friend who not just hears you, but sees you and makes something actionable - because I keep thinking back to that stuckness, like stuck in the mud, like of the messy middle. And just that sometimes you need a friend to help you see further or help you take that step out or take that step forward.

Michelle:
And like how willing friends are to do that. You know, like I've shared my essays with you, Kelly, and you've been so willing to just sit down with me and talk through them. And I mean, it doesn't seem like a burden…

Kelly:
It's a gift and that is me being totally honest.

Chelsea:
Well, that's the thing too. Like who are your people who get to see you in the messy middle? Right. Because I think a lot of us take care to not let, maybe some of us, don’t take a lot of care to make sure. I don't know if that's really me. I do think for me, what you see is what you get. And if I'm a mess, you're probably going to see it. But I think that then generally we try to like,
be put together and show up in the world in a type of way. And so when we're in this messy middle, like who are your people that actually get to see that and see you through that and accept you and not judge you and like be there through the mess with you.

Michelle:
Well, it would be interesting too to see, because I do think everybody has their own issues with being seen, which is one of our questions, but based on Enneagram, like what that issue.

Kelly:
Wait, can we deep dive into this?

Chelsea:
This is you tricked me into Ennegram.

Kelly:
We're really into the horses and cowgirl energy this year.

Audible Laughter

Chelsea:
I think about - with the being seen and unseen - I think a lot about the 4s, Enneagram Type 4, and supposedly the rarest type. And they, if you're a typical four, which you might not be, but a typical four likes that they're rare and doesn't like that there's other fours. Like when you type them, they typically are someone who's like, upset that they can be typed, like that they're not unique enough to not fall within a type.

Michelle:
But they do really want to be seen.

Chelsea:
Yes. That's huge, I mean, for everyone, right? We're human beings. Everyone wants to be known and seen and heard. But the fours, that is a deep, deep value for them and they can go (fours and fives), especially can go really deep in the mind and the heart and the soul, in different ways. And they can kind of stay there longer than a lot of other types. And so for someone to hang with them in that deep - especially when it's their dark side or their darker shadow side coming out, I think that can happen. And then I think about nines actually.

Kelly:
Yeah, what about the 9s?

Chelsea:
I think about nines. Nines adapt so well and they hold so much of all the other types within them that a nine is often hard to type -or- they think they’re a lot of other types before they realize they're a nine because they hold so many. That's why they're at the top of the Enneagram because they're - they can see all perspectives. And so in that way, a nine isn't always going to be very vocal about their, they can be, take all of this with a grain of salt. But, for a nine they truly are genuinely go with the flow people and most of the time don't care or have a huge opinion - but when they do have an opinion, it's a very strong opinion.

Michelle:
Trash versus Leftovers

Audible Laughter

Chelsea:
Don’t start that or we’ll be here for 30 more minutes

Michelle:
I just have to explain for the listeners - so they’re in on the story. We had sandwiches pre-ritual and Kelly was very serious about it - I wasn't going to eat my leftover sandwich. So even though I was wrapping it up, she was like, is it trash or leftovers? Because if it is...trash, it cannot go in the bag with the other sandwiches.

Audible Laughter

Kelly:
Yeah, I think I have a thing about leftovers. That was really...

Chelsea:
See - when they do have a really strong opinion - but I do think sometimes, my brother's a very, stereotypical nine. He's very much self-identified as the nine.

Kelly:
Awwwww I love that your brother is a nine, too!

Chelsea:
The nine I think because they can be quick to go along with what other people like, it does take some extra time to really get to know what are their values? What are their opinions? And what are the opinions that they really care about versus the ones that they don't as much?

And if you want me to pick on you as well.

Michelle:
Wait, first I want to say one more thing about myself.

Chelsea:
Of course she does.

Michelle:
Well, I wonder if part of it you can confirm or deny Kelly, but if part of it - part of the difficulty of being seen as a nine could be that you don't want to rock the boat, that you don't want to upset other people?

Kelly:
Even earlier it was interesting, like immediately when Chels got here, I was like, do you want to eat inside or outside? But deep down, I was really excited to eat outside. But I still asked and I guarantee if Chels was like, yeah, let's see inside - I Iwould have done it. Yeah. So that's me going with the flow because it wasn't strong enough - to this point - it wasn't strong enough or I wouldn't have been devastated if we didn't eat outside. But there are certain things where I will get prickly.

Michelle:
Right, like the trash.

Audible Laughter

Kelly:
But okay, what do you guys think? In a weird way - it maybe helps me be seen because people really know what I care about because I will make kind of fuss about it.

Michelle:
When you do. It's like, Kelly really means this…

Chelsea:
I feel like people who are closer to you because I feel like you don't do that with people as much who you don't feel as close to.

Kelly:
Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, they probably wouldn't.

Chelsea:
Yeah. See that part. Well, for an eight…

Kelly:
What's going on with the eights over here?

Chelse:
Being seen - the eight stereotypically are going to have that wall built up or that protection built up big time, which is really a gift in a lot of ways as well. But they tend to and I don't even know if they're hiding it, but like the sensitive part. The sensitive part of an eight where people don't think they're sensitive because they're so tough or they don't have these big like hearts, which actually eights are really known for huge hearts and being really sensitive, but you just don't, that's not like the first thing you're going to see with an eight stereotypically. And so I think they will get missed. Like people just assume, you're just tough and things just like, you know, turn/slide off your water roll off your chest up - some combination of those

Michelle:
Water off a duck's back.

Kelly:
That's a Vermont saying.

Michelle:
Water up a duck's back.

Chelsea:
But I think they think like, eights aren't affected by stuff and that's not true. And I think for an - you can tell me if this is wrong for you - but I think with a lot of eights, they may not test, but like that's like a big deal for them. Like when someone does see that part of them, it either scares the shit out of them or they get really excited about someone getting to see that part. I think it depends on the person.

Michelle:
Yeah…probably depends.

Kelly:
And I wonder too, Michelle, because it might be interesting for people to hear what helped you feel seen this year with the essay writing. Because you could have written these essays and sat on them or written the book.

Michelle:
Yeah, I think it's turning the challenger side to my benefit, I guess, in that case. I don't like to be seen as weak, but being afraid to show vulnerability is in a way a weakness.

Kelly:
That’s deep.

Michelle:
So then that's kind of like using it to my benefit. Challenge myself to be vulnerable.

But yes, I resonate with what you're saying. We drew cards during the ritual that we did to represent how we were feeling in the middle. And that's the card I was gravitated towards was this knight that you could see.

Kelly:
It was so eight! Well, now I'm like, my gosh, I was such a nine. I drew six cards and I could have kept drawing more because I'm trying to encompass all the numbers.

Michelle:
That's crazy! And yours was like all anxiety-ridden, Chelsea.

Chelsea:
Classic.

Audible Laughter

Michelle:
But just like you said, there's that vulnerability, you could see in the knight's eyes, this vulnerability and I think that was so…

Chelsea:
My God, now that I think about my card, I'm like, wow, what a type six card I chose. It's so interesting reading that Enneagram perspective on it. It was the little boy on the hamster wheel with literally a scene from every part of, it was literally like war going on in the background. He's like failing his classes. His parents are mad at him. There's like a dragon, like all this stuff and this kid's like sweating on the hamster wheel. That was like, yep, this is it. This is the one.

Kelly:
We didn't, like, for listeners, didn't draw these cards and be like, okay, we're tapping into our Enneagrams.

Chelsea:
But it is, you know, I nerd out about this stuff and so I could go on all day. But I was thinking, you know, that with, like six is a head space. You both are in the gut/body space in different ways, but that's where your center is and my center's head. And when you look at that card, it's just like all the things in your head, it's like spinning and ruminating and spinning and like in that circle. And so yeah, it's really interesting.

Kelly:
So many things.

Michelle:
I love it! So what would you say is the sixes’ difficulty with being seen? Just anxiety??

Chelsea:
We're not just balls of anxiety now. We have other things.

Michelle:
Other anxiety?

Audible Laughter

Chelsea:
Other anxieties to worry about…I think a six, they say the six can look the most different between sixes because we do a lot of - not like it in a different way than the nine. The nine can see all perspectives. The six can kind of be a bit of a chameleon in different ways. They call us the juxtaposition type or the two opposites kind of type - where one thing is true about us, but it's also not true about us.

Kelly:
Ohhhhhh, the paradox.

Chelsea:
Thank you. The paradox. We are the paradox type. And so it can be confusing because, and it depends where you're at in health, right? With any of the Enneagram stuff. Cause I do feel like I'm getting better with this, but with the paradox of like, what is true to me? I think I talked about that actually in season one when I was here before about inner wisdom and that I really had to build that because I really didn't have - all I had was just stuff ruminating in my head. Like I didn't really know what it was to have a gut feeling or to have a heart feel like obviously I know emotions and feeling words, but like to actually be embodied. That was a foreign concept for me. And so when I think about a six feeling seen, one thing that we're very known for is our loyalty. So I will say, being seen for loyalty is a big deal. That comes out for me a lot in my job. Like I need that to be valued.

Michelle:
It's so funny because I met with Brooke, one of your best friends about writing and stuff. And that was exactly what we were saying about you. You're just such a ride or die friend. You're just so supportive!

Kelly:
100%

Chelsea:
Awwwww - look at you validating me!

Kelly:
She's glowing folks.

Chelsea:
Yeah. I was about to crack up because I was thinking about the loyalty and at work and I just got that email about my 10 year anniversary and they're like, do you want a key chain or a blanket? I was like great…I guess I'll take that blanket.

Michelle:
You gotta go cozy. Can't afford a new car, so I'm not getting the key chain. That just stings.

Audible Laughter

Chelsea:
Oh, but I do think really for a six too is just seeing that they're not just their anxiety, that we're not just that, like that, that is a mechanism. It's a part of us, but it's not who we are. And so to sit with us to like go deeper, I think sixes can often be really a type with a lot of depth as well. And sometimes we're just anxiety or go, go, go, or we're - a lot of us are community builders and like taking care of a lot of other people. And so that, for me, I think being seen for really who I am at my core.

Michelle:
I love talking about the different types and how that affects being seen because I feel like it does tie back to Michelle's episode where she was talking about just how we approach people as though they have the same likes and dislikes as us. And that's just not the case. You know, we just all approach the world in different ways.

Chelsea:
Yeah, that's it. Reminds me of one of the types of therapy I'm trained in, Trauma Resiliency Model, TRIM by Dr. Elaine Miller. And so much of that model, it's very sensation based, like physiological sensation. So we might learn from our thoughts. We might learn from our feelings, like emotion feelings, but our physiological sensations teach us a lot as well. And we're not usually really taught to tune into those. So I am thinking about, with TRIM, so much of that work is not just noticing sensation, but actually asking yourself, is that sensation pleasurable, unpleasurable or neutral? Because it's such a non-assumptive type of therapy. I say, I'm a therapist. We try to be non-judgmental and we don't make it something. When I was really doing that work, I was like, my gosh, the amount of assumptions I make with sensation.

Specifically, like even when someone says, I'm like, I have a deep breath and you're like, good. It's like, well, is it good? It's a deep breath actually. Like, you know, for a lot of people that feels good or that feels safe, but for other people it might not. And so I really have been thinking about this, like how we make these assumptions about how things affect people or how certain things that might be amazingly pleasant to one person that is like completely triggering, right? When you think about trauma triggers or resilience glimmers, they're very sensory based…very sensory based.

Michelle:
It's funny when we were doing the self-love episode, because Kelly and I said..

Chelsea:
Great episode! I'm also a Patreon member.

Kelly:
Now we’re blushing…

Michelle:
Yes, if you're a Patreon member, you might get to hang with us.

Chelsea:
Highly recommend truly though! The bonus content is clutch.

Kelly:
So sweet.

Michelle:
Yeah, because we're both so body based that we were trying to describe self-love and we were just like...like when you're wrapped in a hug. But that's interesting being a six that you haven't really connected…that was harder for you to connect to.

Chelsea:
I think it was overly connected to anxiety sensations. And that drowned out almost all the other ones. And just the mindfulness piece, right? You can't do a lot of this work without the mindfulness piece. And that I have grown, I mean, tenfold in the last 10 years. And that is a huge part of even just noticing what's happening. Because that's the first piece of it, is just noticing what even is happening and then how is that affecting me. What does this feel like and can I shift?

Michelle:
All right, well, we'll share a little bit about the ritual that we did today. We'll go into more detail for the Patreon. So definitely head over there and we'll also be talking about Enneagram types more over there. But basically what we did today is we decided to do a mud ritual. So we went out to a natural area. We drew some cars to represent how we feel in the middle, like we kind of talked about, and then we just played around in the mud. We danced in the wind, and it was awesome.

Kelly:
We sure did.

Chelsea:
It was great - I really needed that.

Michelle:
Yeah. We’re just talking about how nice it was just to do something. It didn't take that long, but it was such a shift in just how we were feeling.

Chelsea:
Well, cause it was like, earlier we talked about the crazy wind we've had up here the last two days. I was stuck inside all day yesterday because of that. And so even though it was a little bit windy today, I was like, we need to get outside. And at first we were like getting down by the water - it got really windy and I could just feel myself, Kelly and I were, we were all just talking about like, we're like bracing, like trying to like the bottom. Like, we were complaining and all this and then by the end of it, like after moving our bodies and all the different things we did, I just felt myself at one point when we were kind of just grooving to the music. I felt myself embrace the wind and just like, actually, the wind is great! Like the wind is blowing my hair. I'm swaying in the wind. It just felt and I just kind of went with it and everything just shifted. I'm literally doing it right now.

Kelly:
You are - She's flowing.

Chelsea:
But what we were saying earlier, like accepting it and just not having so much tension against it and what transforms when you do that.

Michelle:
Yeah. I think that's a big theme that maybe people can take away from being in the mess is learning to kind of just go with the flow. Even when I was talking about the cramps, it was probably just like so much resistance. And then the next day I did a massage and I asked to do, like she has massage oils with CBD.

Kelly:
That sounds lovely. Do you have those here? Add it to the ritual kit.

Michelle:
No, but I should get some because honestly, like, yeah, and it wasn't. It's not like a relaxing massage because I do like more sports massage. So it's more like releasing tension. Yeah, PT kind of stuff. But my cramps completely went away. I felt so much more relaxed.

Chelsea:
Speaking of massage, massage has been a big one for me, especially when I started doing more embodiment and recognizing the mind body connection. And I wish I could afford to go more often, but what I did just do one a week ago or a week and a half ago. And I love my girl. Shoutout Michelle at Sanctuary.

Kelly:
Shout out!

Chelsea:
It’s a deep pressure massage and I am not kidding. I felt like a new person. Like truly my body felt like so much had just been worked through and worked out. I literally felt so much lighter after it.

Michelle:
We can probably link some relaxation yoga kind of stuff, because you can have, if you can't afford massage because it's expensive, that's another good way to release.

Kelly:
Yeah, I like that idea.

Michelle:
Anything that helps you get in the flow, Kelly?

Kelly:
Well, I'm glad we brought up the cards because for me, if we hadn't done the cards, there's something there of having that visual archetype that is so powerful for me to be like, this is where I'm at. Because sometimes when I'm in the messy middle, it's so chaotic that it feels like a tornado that's eating me alive. But having those images to ground me in, okay, this is the before, this is truly where I'm at. And then to do the cards after…like that was so important in the process today.

Chelsea:
I think the cards really help - when we've been doing more ritual things this last year and you having, Michelle, has so many different, Kelly too has so many different cards and types of cards and themes to the cards. And I have really noticed when I, when you all started this podcast, I'm like, what is the difference between a ritual and like a hobby or a habit? And I, and like that intention piece is such a big part of what makes ritual ritual. And for me, in a lot of the different types of rituals we've done, having the cards for that exact reason has really helped me to make it feel more intentional.

Kelly:
I just got goosebumps.

Michelle:
But it goes back to the Enneagram thinking, feeling, body archetypes that just taps into a different area than thinking.

Chelsea:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure.

Kelly:
I love it. I'm feeling so grateful to be with you both, truly.

Chelsea:
I think for anyone listening who's in the messy middle currently, or is maybe just getting out of it, I think be patient with your, know it's so hard because you're usually suffering in that messy middle. So like finding, like validating that, right? Like validating the hard, validating the stuckness feeling and uncomfortableness of that. And also whether it's finding your people or finding your rituals or whatever the thing is that's going to help pull you through that mud and either like play in the mud while we're in there, right? Find some joy while we're in there, create something from the mud like or walk through and get out of the mud.

I think it’s important to recognize that this isn't forever - that this is a season. I think that's the biggest thing for me. I have to remember that this is a season and the mud doesn't last forever. It washes away, it dries up. It's not going to last forever. This is a season and we will get to the other side.

Michelle:
And we were even commenting when we were walking away from the ritual about how like your socks were already dried, my hands were already dried. We were thinking it's gonna be so messy forever and it only lasted like 10 minutes.

Kelly:
We also let's do a group trip to Iceland, a ritual trip.

Chelsea:
They're magic mud.

Michelle:
But I also liked what Kristin was saying about the friendship piece. And I saw something on Instagram that was an idea for a party or just like a gathering of working on small things together. Everybody brings a project or something that they feel stuck around, whether it's figuring out your taxes or, you know, how you want to email your boss or something. But everybody brings something that they are kind of working through and they just want to bounce ideas off of.

Kelly:
That is such a good messy middle party idea, Michelle.

Chelsea:
I love that! Party at Michelle’s!

Kelly:
Party, party!

Michelle:
The door's always open.

Audible Laughter

All right. Well, this has been lovely.

Chelsea:
Thank you for having me. It's been lovely to be back with y'all. Thanks for always letting me in on the rituals. I was thinking about that today with it being almost a year of the podcast and I'm so proud of both of you and I am just, and it really has like with, I mean, I think part of why you all came up with this idea is because you were already so intentional about doing ritual before this. I feel like this year you all have been even more intentional with that and doing that with community and with our friends and with each other. It's definitely impacted me for the better to have that space. I think almost once a month, if you think about it, almost once a month we've had something that's around ritual as a friend group or as a community and that has made a difference for me for sure. So I appreciate you.

Michelle:
Thank you for reminding us that it's our one year anniversary.

Chelsea:
First birthday! Ritual Sisters!

Kelly:
And I know we do need a birthday party.

Chelsea:
We will. We'll celebrate. Yes!

Michelle:
Maybe I'll just surprise you and smash cake in your face.

Chelsea:
A very Type 8 aggressive move.

Michelle:
It's the first birthday though - they always do this.

Chelsea:
Okay. Maybe I just need to bring two cakes and smash them in both of your faces.

Audible Laughter

Michelle:
Alright, well, yeah, stay tuned on the Patreon. We'll share all of our secrets of the mud ritual and we'll talk about how to be seen by Enneagram type.

Kelly:
Yes, all the types.

Michelle:
Well, wherever you're at, whatever you're doing, have a magical time.

Kelly, Michelle, and Chelsea:
Alright, bye everyone! Byeeeeeeee!

Michelle:
Hey, you still there? We got so carried away that we forgot to tell you about April's theme. Our theme for April is going to be Rewritten. And our questions are, in what ways are you worthy of a new story? What old narratives do you feel stuck in? And what are the narratives that you want to embody?

We are embracing the fresh start of spring next month to talk about how we want to change our stories. We're so excited for you to hear our April guest. She is one of the absolute most inspiring people I have ever had the pleasure to speak with. It's going to be a great episode and we can't wait to hear your responses to April's questions.

If you would like to submit a response, you can do so on our voicemail box, is speakpipe.com/ritualsisterspod. All right. Goodbye for real this time.