Michelle:
Ritual Sisters, the podcast where your hosts and fellow travelers, Michelle and Kelly, explore the ways that ritual can help you feel better through the ups and downs of life. So let's take a deep breath and start this journey together.

Kelly:
Hello everyone!

Michelle:
Welcome to our second Ritual Riff. Look at her face.
We made it. We made it. And what is the theme for today?

Kelly & Michelle:
Self-love!

Kelly:
I know - I really wanted to wear my sweater with hearts on it, but it's hot today, so I couldn't wear my heart sweater.

Michelle:
We're so sorry listeners that can't see us right now. You don't have Kelly's heart sweater to look at. I was bummed about that. How are you doing, Kelly?

Kelly:
You know, I am arriving today.

It was one of those days where, yeah, okay, it's taking me a minute to get it.

Michelle:
Yeah, for sure. It was a long evening. We did observe the Superbowl. We did. Excellent halftime show. We loved it.

Kelly:
Yes. Bad Bunny. Good.

Michelle:
But we were saying we don't actually know the history of Bad Bunny and that we need to do a deep dive.

Kelly:
Yeah, we really should.

Michelle:
But it was nice. We were saying it was nice to see a halftime show in Spanish.

Kelly:
The food was amazing. Yeah, it was a really good week.

Michelle:
Yeah. I feel like our first ritual riff week, we're coming off of a lot of activities.

Kelly:
We were.

Michelle:
Yeah, we haven't done as much, although we have watched Heated Rivalry. That was the biggest event, I think, for everyone to know since our last episode. Party.

Kelly:
That's right, and yeah, I'm really excited to watch more.

Michelle:
Yeah, season two and three.

Kelly:
When does it come out?

Michelle:
We probably have a while to go. I think season one just came out within the last couple of months. Alas. Yeah, how is winter going so far?

Kelly:
What we were saying yesterday, it's been so hot in Colorado this winter. It just feels like such an illusion.

Michelle:
I know.

Kelly:
Right now. I'm like, I'm still going slow. I'm still decluttering, but yeah, it's been an odd winter just because it has been so hot and no snow.

Michelle:
Yeah, I feel like we were saying we went into this season really excited because we've been talking about winter rituals. We've been wanting to go snowshoeing, but there hasn't really been snow. Sad day.

Kelly:
Yeah, but still moving slowly, would say through winter, like just a little less social plans, being home more. So that's been nice.

Michelle:
Yeah. And then there's been a lot of unrest in the world. That's been very sad to witness.

Kelly:
So much, disheartening, and it feels like it's non-stop.

Michelle:
And we have been talking on our socials about using rest as part of resilience in this time.

Kelly:
I'm really just taking things day by day is how it feels. I mean, especially as a therapist. I really just have to take it day by day.

Michelle:
I mean, it's weird in this season where you're feeling less energy, more wanting to kind of curl up and be inside, but then there's all this call to action right now. So I feel like it's definitely, I was really seeing that duality of the rest, the season of rest, but also that winter is the season of vision of what we want for our future and how we are preparing ourselves for more energetic times. Yeah, so we just came out yesterday with our episode with Julie, which we recorded a long time ago, but we felt like it would be so good for this time of year, February, where people are being reminded quite a bit of love. And yeah, it was just a really good conversation about her process of learning to dismantle outside messages and find love from within.

Kelly:
It was - I'm really glad we waited to air the episode this month. I think that was the right decision. And I mean, I’ve met with so many people who are overcoming religious trauma and the way she speaks about her own journey and how personal she was willing to share on the podcast. I'm so inspired by her vulnerability.

Michelle:
Yeah, she is so vulnerable and we are going to talk a little bit more about vulnerability in our next section, but it's hard.

Kelly:
It is, it's so hard. It's been really special getting to revisit that episode, especially just where I'm at right now in life and where so many people are at, where there are systems that seem to be crumbling and where we are left as those systems crumble.

Michelle:
That's deep. I don't know how to respond. That's really deep. Systems crumbling.

Kelly:
But also back to love. You know, so one of my rituals that I started this year is choosing a new card every month. So I chose my February card yesterday. It's two of cups and the image is two elephants and they're holding these cups and they're just so love filled. And I was like, okay, I feel this.

Michelle:
Yes, Two of Cups is the...I don't know how much to share. I'll just say it all and then I can cut it out if I need to.

Kelly:
Yes, please.

Michelle:
In Tarot, there's the Minor and Major Arcana, the two decks, kind of like the...yeah, the Minor cards and then the Major. And the Major kind of represents the big arc of life. And the Lovers is one of the cards in the Major Arcana and the Two of Cups is kind of like a parallel to the Lovers in the Major Arcana. But it's a little bit more quiet, more like the two is like a very balanced number. So I love that.

Kelly:
Yeah, thank you Michelle. I was nervous to pull it. I was like, gosh, there's a lot happening in the universe. We're just gonna see what comes my way.

Michelle:
Yeah. It’s a nice card to pull. It's like a very, yeah, like nourishing, gentle love energy coming from the Two of Cups. My side hobby is reading tarot.

Do you enjoy Valentine's Day?

Kelly:
You know, I didn't mean to pause there. I feel like it's - I'm very neutral about Valentine's Day is the best way I can say this. I'm not over the top, I don’t need the fanciest dinner, but I'm also not like this is a stupid holiday/this is a hallmark holiday. I feel very neutral about Valentine's Day. Like I like to mark it in some way, but when we talked about last time, like the Palentine. So I do, it's more for me, it's like this month, it really does feel like a love-filled month. And whether I'm, yeah, like wearing, you know, more feminine colors or I'm wearing my heart sweater. Like I try to get excited throughout the month. What about you, Michelle?

Michelle:
What I love about Valentine's Day is that it's like the girliest holiday. All the colors are like pink and purple and sparkly. And I just feel like that's, I'm not like the biggest girly girl, I guess, but I just think it's fun to have a holiday that's just like so in your face, feminine. So I would never disrespect Valentine's Day for that reason.

Kelly:
Hahaha!

Michelle:
Personally, I'm not like, I need to go all out for it or anything like that. I actually kind of personally feel uncomfortable with like, I don't need to like.

Kelly:
You don't need a box of chocolate??

Michelle:
I mean, I don't need one. [laughs]


Kelly:
Even when I go to the grocery store and I see the balloons and the stuffed animals, it makes me so happy. I just saw a dinosaur stuffed animal and was like, wait, I actually think I need this dinosaur stuffed animal.

Michelle:
Yeah, it's like the feminine cozy and just leaning into that. That side of it. I don't like the forced, like, you have to have this romantic date or go out to dinner. So that side of it I don't like, or the idea of, you know, singles awareness day. I don't like that it's yeah, like pushing you to be, to have this one particular expression of love. But the side of it that's so blatantly feminine in a way that probably is annoying - I love that.

Kelly:
It is weird though, the memories that come up with Valentine's Day. Like, I don't know if your school did those something crush grams.

Like those things made me so uncomfortable. So I feel like growing up my answer probably was different. Like I probably would have been like Valentine's Day - eye roll. Because those things really did feel uncomfortable for myself and others. So I think my acceptance and celebration of Valentine's Day has changed over time.

Michelle:
Yeah, that makes sense. I thought you were going to say about the elementary school, like you had your little brown paper bag and people put their valentines in it and stuff. Yeah, I do love those. Last year I made valentines and I put them on people's cars.

Kelly:
I remember you told me you did that, Michelle. So sweet!

Michelle:
I'm pretty sweet. Actually, they were political, they were like, call your senators. But it was.

Kelly:
There's, gosh, it's like in my head, but there's some really sad, my grandpa grew up extremely poor and he, gosh, I might start crying. They didn't have money for, you know, the Valentine cards. And so he reused the old ones. So yeah, I think holidays are just complicated.

Michelle:
Mm-hmm

Kelly:
Especially when there's so much materialism. I just think sometimes people get missed or it can be so in your face.

Michelle:
Mm-hmm.

We’ve talked about with ritual - part of what we want to change is that it shouldn't be this capitalistic. That's the expression. You know? Like my best friend growing up, they didn't have a lot of money for valentines and she would make the most beautiful handmade ones. I think I still have some - it meant a lot to receive them.

Kelly:
I think it's just amazing how these things feel so simple, but yet they can be so complicated, I think, for many of us.

Michelle:
Yeah, I think that is what's beautiful, maybe as we dive more into the theme of self-love is that it's going out of just these like traditional or like not traditional, but the capitalistic view of what does love mean? What is this month about? What is Valentine's about? You can find self-love anywhere. You don't need a certain object or status symbol.

All right, so we're gonna dive more in depth into the topic of self-love and what that means.

I think one of the biggest things about it is the courage to meet yourself, like whatever is coming up for you - whatever you've done, like the parts of yourself that you really love and celebrate, but also the things that you don't love about yourself, is meeting that with compassion. I think that's the biggest thing that comes to mind for me with self-love.

Kelly:
I love that emphasis on compassion. I know we've been side barring about compassion and Kristin Neff's research. Ooh, what is my definition of self-love? You know, I'm so body-based. I'm like, I have it in my body. How do I translate that into words?

Michelle:
Yeah.

Kelly:
The best way I can describe it - if anyone listening has taken a yoga class, but it's that moment when you've maybe gone through different poses/different postures, and you're working your body, right? Like you’re developing some heat, there might be discomfort at times, but the teacher says, okay, it's time for Shavasana.

And I get all my props out and I always create such a sweet little nest for myself. And I feel like it's such a total surrender. And I think that's how I describe self-love is me when I'm in this state of surrender and it feels very peaceful. Yeah, just very like, I am connected to more than myself.

Michelle:
I like it. So surrender. I'm trying to process - I understand. We're both so body based. This is one of our growing edges.

Speaking of self-love and compassion, I have this visual in my head of self-compassion as like, it's so weird, but it's like the opposite of high rises. It's like buildings on their side.

Kelly:
Wait, say more?

Michelle:
I feel like we are only adding confusion to the listeners, but like non-hierarchical. There is no right way to live. There's just this image of when like capitalist - like building up and up and like, wanting the highest tower. I want my mark on the skyline. It's like the opposite of that. It's like, what if we all just chilled out?

Kelly:
I love that, Michelle. This is very similar to mine in that in Shavasana, like, because you're on the ground, you are literally all lying on the floor/on the earth.

Michelle:
Yeah, and just surrendering to like, this is the moment. I am nothing and everything in this moment. Please tell us if we're making sense because it makes perfect sense to me.

In a book, it's actually from yoga, it's Light on Life by BKS Iyengar, right behind me. He talks about this, probably a familiar concept in mindfulness, but like your mind as the bottom of a lake. And that when you have all these negative thoughts or worries, or you're like trying to pull the things that you want and you're trying to push away the things you don't want. It's like creating these deposits on the bottom of your mind. And that as you surrender, as you let go of these needs of like, need to be a certain way or I need to achieve these certain things, it's like this flattening and it creates this smooth bottom of the lake.

Kelly:
Yoga has been such an important practice for me in feeling like I do have self-love.

Michelle:
And even the body aspect of it, which you're probably pretty familiar with already as a dancer, but I think for a lot of people that aren't dancers specifically, it's like a very specific, you're learning to articulate parts of your body. You get to know all of these different muscles and like how you can move this one muscle, this one way, that I had never really thought about until I got into yoga. Yeah, you're learning to articulate all these different parts of your body that you maybe haven't connected with before. And I feel like that kind of goes into that self-love piece of learning to connect with who you are, learning to see your full self. And there's this body component to that, like awareness of your body - how you move through space, that can also translate to your emotional state, your neuroses, and the positive parts of your personality and all that stuff.

Kelly:
Exactly, Michelle. Well, and the mind, body, soul connection. Like when I'm in that connected place, yeah, it feels so comfortable to access self-love.

Michelle:
Well, listeners, we did receive a couple of voicemails from one of the listeners. So we are going to play at least one of those. Can't wait.

Kayla (voicemail):
Hey, this is Kayla calling in from Colorado. I'm a mental health clinician in the community and I have three beautiful daughters. I'm married and just full of all the self-love. So I wanted to speak a little bit about the topic. I feel like self-love is a lot about choosing compassion and being optimistic, like when you think about yourself. So I think it's about doing things that you enjoy with people that bring you happiness, like choosing the people that you want to be around as good people.

And I also think it's about stopping those judgmental thoughts and really just pausing when they do come up, like sitting in it, thinking about it, changing it to something more optimistic. And I know for myself, being a mom of three girls can feel like a lot of pressure to raise like three girls a certain way. And I had a mom who was, she was really awesome and she was full of creativity and love. And so I got a lot of beautiful parts of her and I try to share that with my girls. So I think it's a lot about modeling confidence and bravery that I inherited from my mom with my daughters.

Michelle:
Aw, well yeah, that she went to the compassion that we both were talking about. Thank you, Kayla.

Kelly:
That was so, so beautiful. And I loved how you highlighted, yeah, this lineage. That is something that didn't even cross my mind initially. I love how you said the inspiration you received from your mom and how that translates in your life. And now of course, your daughter's lives.

Michelle:
Yeah, well, that was a piece that I was thinking about but forgot to say of how self-love translates to our relationships and our outer lives. And yeah, I love that. Kayla brought up that modeling, that confidence.
I feel like we were talking about it before with the political unrest, and I was reading some research around activism and the mental health effects and how people manage that. And one of the things was just that there can be a lot of shame or guilt around self care and just feeling like you have to be this brave person. You have to be putting yourself out there. And I think it can really get in the way for people and part of why I think some people don't get involved in activism is because of that lack of self-love or lack of self-compassion that it just kind of goes into, I don't know what to do or what I can contribute or I feel afraid. And so I'm just going to not engage at all. And that's to me, like what can be so powerful about self-love is that when you tap into that in yourself, it gives you courage to show yourself to the world.

Kelly:
It absolutely does. And the boldness, being able to be bold and stand up for what your beliefs are. That takes a lot of courage.

Michelle:
I think Kayla also sent us one about the challenges of self-love.

Kayla (voicemail):
And then the last question is how has self-love been challenging for me? I think the hardest part of self-love has been setting boundaries for sure. And that's something I've struggled with since I was definitely in like high school and started being mindful of that. And so sometimes it's like, having small boundaries for myself, like only getting one coffee a day or putting gas in my car before it gets on E because then I'm like driving around stressing that I'm gonna run out of gas. So there's just a different variety of those boundaries that I need to continue working on. But other times it's not over explaining myself. I think I have always been told I'm a storyteller and I always thought that was a good thing.

And as I've gotten older, I realized maybe I don't have to tell and say all the things and I should just listen and that feels better sometimes. And the other thing is saying no, I think I'm a seven on the Enneagram. And so I'm very adventurous and want to go, go, go and do all the things. And having a baby not that long ago has really helped me stop and say, it's okay to not go to every person's birthday party or every single holiday and event and yeah, so saying no is good.

Kelly:
Lots of wisdom there. I love that she tied it to boundaries. We hadn't talked about that. I wasn't thinking about that as part of self-love. Gosh, and boundaries are, I mean, one of the most common topics - at least for me that shows up in the therapy room. I'm so glad Kayla spoke to that. And I think that does take compassion for yourself to be like, it's okay to say no. Like for many of us, we have to self-soothe to say no to someone. Because there's a lot of narratives about, what's going to happen if I say no? And just the what ifs continue down that road.

Michelle:
Yes, I love that as a form of self-love and the opposite too sometimes, saying yes to things that you're afraid of.

Kelly:
It's really interesting because I think for many of us, it's important to name, okay, am I more of a yes or no person? Because I think many of us do fall in one of those camps. Like I am with Kayla, I am for sure a yes girly. And so I have had to learn the art of saying no. When for others, Michelle, like you're saying, they might be really good at no's. Like it might be the yes that feels really scary and intimidating.

Michelle:
I think this might be one area in my life that I feel pretty balanced in. I feel like I'm actually decent at saying no when I don't wanna do something, but I'm a pretty open person. For sure. So I'm not gonna say no just because I am afraid or uncomfortable.

Kelly:
We're celebrating this. Yes! Maria would be proud of us.

Michelle:
Thank you. Well, that was such a treat to hear a listener's voice and perspective. Thank you, Kayla. We'll share the questions for March at the end. So if you want to hear your lovely voice on the pod, please do leave us a voice message.

Kelly:
Yes.

Michelle:
Okay, so we're also gonna talk about how do people start engaging in self-love? Like how do we even start this process? And I think one of the biggest things is confronting shame, confronting vulnerability. So I did an exercise ahead of this and we’re gonna talk a little bit about it. I wrote an essay about an area of vulnerability that I haven't really shared previously. And it's about identity formation, especially as a woman in a patriarchal society and kind of my process of going through that in my teen years and early twenties. And I shared it with you, Kelly, and that was scary. What did you think about it? How did that feel to receive as a friend?

Kelly:
Yeah, well, some context for everyone is - Michelle, I think you texted me about this saying, hey, I wrote this essay. Or was it in person?

Michelle:
I think it was in person. Yeah, but I was like, I have a question to ask you and I'm really nervous to ask you and you're like, what is it going to be?

Kelly:
But then when you said, yeah, I wanna share this essay with you - I mean, one, I was instantly honored. I really was, I was instantly like, my gosh, yes, of course. And I, in general, love reading people's writing. And this felt, I think, extra sacred because it was something about your life. It wasn't a piece about a character that was loosely connected. I mean, this was…truly your story. And Michelle, you know, texts me, she's like, Okay, I just emailed it to you. I was free at that moment. I mean, you guys I devoured this writing piece to the point where Michelle was like, wait, you already finished reading it??

Michelle:
I was like, God, no, I thought I would have more time to build myself up to hearing.

Kelly:
And I’m quite a slow reader. The fact that I blew through it, really, speaks to how engaged I was. Absolutely, beautiful writing.

Michelle:
Thank you.

Kelly:
I was so engaged and I was, you know, thinking about this. When you're friends with someone, you hear bits and pieces of their stories and their shame narratives. And it felt so different reading your essay this time because it showed me how it all fit together. Like you really took me on a journey from high school until now. And that felt one, very intimate. And it also highlighted, wow, how these shame pieces - how there is a pattern often for us.

Michelle:
Yes. And it's hard to sit down. I mean, you can say to somebody, oh yeah, I feel insecure about that or whatever it is, you know, your looks or your productivity or whether you're a good dancer or runner or whatever. You can name that. And I think somebody could receive that. But to really flesh it out and be like, these are some things that are pinging in my mind that haunt me, for lack of a better word. But yeah, these are the things that I'm thinking about. It's not like, here's one moment. It's really different.

When we did our episode with Hannah on improv and we were talking about all of those touch points in her life that create a story. That's like, I mean, hers is a beautiful, creative, fun story. This is obviously a little bit different, but to share these little touch points along the way - that, it's not like, hey, I had this one experience, and that has led me to feel this way. It's like all these little moments and how I interpreted them, how I internalized them that lead into this narrative that you don't always get in casual conversation.

Kelly:
I think you rarely get it.

Michelle, how are you sitting with this now, after writing and after sharing it with me? How are you feeling?

Michelle:
I feel, even when we talked about it today, I told you, was like, my gosh, I'm nervous by your face. Like, I don't know what you're trying to tell me. So, yeah, I'm not perfect, but, I think there was something. For the Patreon listeners, maybe we'll go into more detail about some ideas if you are interested in trying this in some capacity - how I went about doing it, but there is something very healing and we know this with therapy - telling a story, creating a narrative is healing. Having all of these thoughts and feelings and memories bounce around your head, that can just pop up and scare you.

I did a training on burnout once where the person used the metaphor of a haunted house and that has always stuck with me. That it's like, these memories are like a haunted house that can just pop up and scare you at any time, but to write it out and put it into a narrative that in and of itself feels healing. It feels like, okay, I have an understanding that I didn't necessarily have before. And then I will admit, even though I don't condone the use of AI due to environmental issues It's really scary to share something like this. So I did share it with ChatGPT first. And I said, please respond to me like a friend. And that in and of itself, especially if you don't have somebody that you do feel safe to share it with. That response felt very healing too. So when I shared it with you, I felt like, okay.

I also trust you. So I was like, I don't think Kelly's gonna be mean about this. But also I felt a sense of confidence in this. And then you sent a really nice response back. That made me feel really good. So I feel like now we talk about corrective experiences, you know, it's like sharing something vulnerable about yourself and having it received in that compassionate voice gives you more compassion for yourself.

Kelly:
Yeah, it increases the love. I do feel this so often when friends will share something vulnerable, right? Whether it's digitally or in person. And it's like my love for them grows so much. When I hear these vulnerable truths.

Michelle:
It’s really hard though - to believe that somebody could see a part of yourself that you're ashamed of and actually care for you more.

Kelly:
Yeah, okay, there's a lot there.

Michelle:
So that's my story about writing the essay and yeah we'll probably go into more detail about the process, maybe some advice.

Kelly:
I think that would be really helpful, especially if someone's thinking this might be a really healing exercise.

Michelle:
Yeah. So stay tuned on the Patreon for that.

What about you, Kelly? Is there anything that stands out to you as ways that people can start to build self-love?

Kelly:
You know, it's so linked for me with Julie's episode. Julie's episode was perfect for this month and I know we've said that a few times. But for me, accessing pleasure is such an avenue to self-love. For someone that might be getting a massage feels so pleasurable and so enjoyable and helps you melt into your body. For others, that's going to look really different. But I think, you know, my words of wisdom for people are - think about what does feel pleasurable. That could even be for me taking a walk outside, hearing the birds (shoutout to Hannah's episode on birding), the sun on my face, that is so pleasurable. And if I'm having a shitty day or I'm dysregulated, I take that walk and I return to loving myself and loving others.

So I think for all of us that looks different, because everyone finds pleasure in different ways, but that's where I'd start.

Michelle:
Yeah, and I like the two sides of it, you know, that sitting with shame - the vulnerability, those like negative sides in compassion - and also embracing joy and that it doesn't have to be one or the other. It's definitely both.

Kelly:
It is so both. And I think that even, that's why I'm excited to dive into this on the Patreon, it is so helpful when people think about what are barriers to loving myself.

Michelle:
I think another piece of building self-love is that community piece too. I mean, we kind of talked about it the essay - if I just write that for myself, I mean, that's a beautiful thing and it helped me on my own. But again, like sharing it with you added to that layer.

And it's just, especially being therapists because we see, like Kristin Neff says, the particular neuroses, the particular mistakes, the particular experiences will vary, but the experience of being imperfect, the experience of having shame is universal. And nobody knows that as well as a therapist, because we hear it from all walks of life, all experiences, we hear this.

I also shared the essay with Jay, my husband, and I'm thinking it's maybe going to help him understand me better. But I mean, we're so different.

Kelly:
Yeah, because what was his reaction? I'm on the edge of my seat.

Michelle:
The first thing he kind of said was he started sharing about insecurities he experienced in high school. And I was like, wow, this touched something in you. It wasn't just like, I empathize with you. It was the mirror. I see something in me that I'm reading in you. So I think that's like, that's so valuable with community - and again, we'll talk more in the Patreon specific strategies, but the power of sharing because you see how it touches people.

Kelly:
All those years I ran therapy groups and I know you still run a therapy group. I mean, this is it. It’s someone sharing their heart and others resonating, sharing their own, how they connect with what, I mean, I miss running groups for that reason.

Michelle:
Yeah, and that's why I think a lot of people don't like running groups. But why we probably love it is because of that.

Kelly:
The shared common human experience. Yes. I'm just really looking forward to this month and focusing on love - focusing on self-love. It has such a magical ripple when we love ourselves. Like you can just, when you're with someone who loves themself, it feels different.

Michelle:
It does. So although this episode will come out towards the end of month, we are talking about it, all month on our socials, as we do for all of our themes. So hopefully this can just kind of build on that and people can keep growing their self-love. And we also want to introduce the March theme before we get going.

Kelly:
It’s gonna be good. So good. Yes. And I feel like all of our topics are building on each other. And so we're talking about the messy middle.

Michelle:
For March, we're going to be talking about our interview around trauma and trauma recovery. And we're also going to be talking about this phase of growth.

Kelly:
I think, especially in March, it just always feels like this.

Michelle:
It's a weird time of year. You're back and forth. It's snowing. It's warm. I mean, no matter where you're at, it's a transitional month for everyone. I mean, outside of very temperate places, but I'm talking about the northern and southern hemisphere specifically. We have that in common that it's a transitional month.
So, the questions we have for you, dear listeners, are…

What is something that you're working through slash learning right now?

Kelly:
Our next question is, when have you enjoyed feeling seen?

Michelle:
And then the last question, what are the challenges of being seen, especially when you're in the growth phase?

Kelly:
Well, we would love to hear from you. And please, yeah, if you want to answer all the questions, that is fabulous. If there's one where you're like, I'm really drawn to journaling on that one and sharing it. Don’t feel like you have to answer all of them. Michelle and I would love to hear from you about March's theme.

Michelle:
Yes, and the link is in the podcast notes, but it is speakpipe.com slash ritual sisters pod. Yes. All right. Well, if you're not on the Patreon, then we hope that you've enjoyed talking about self-love with us and wherever you're at. Wait, before I say that, I forgot. My gosh. Please, if you haven't yet.

Kelly:
Can't wait to hear from you!

Michelle:
Leave us a rating slash review. We would love to hear that. And if you are enjoying the podcast, we would love it if you would share with a friend, send an episode that you think somebody would like.

Kelly:
It'd mean the world - we'd love to grow our ritual family.

Michelle:
Yes. So wherever you're at, whatever you're doing, have a magical time. All right. Bye bye.