It is just going out there to do it challenging yourselves, accepting you know who you are in the class, being, being curious and being brave.

Welcome Ritual fam. That lovely voice that you just heard is today's special guest. Dr. Iris Rosa Santiago, professor Emerita in the Department of African American and African Diaspora studies at Indiana University. She is also the founder of her own dance studio. Iris Rosa Dance Studio. Today we are talking about movement, self-expression, processing life and changes through movement.

And I think that you will get a lot out of this whether you are a dancer or not, or maybe aspiring to be. And I have a feeling that you probably will be by the end of this podcast. Alright, enjoy. Well, welcome, welcome. We are so grateful to be back and just feel so honored to get to spend this time with Iris Rosa.

And my goodness, it's amazing to have you on here today. Well, I am really happy to be here. Uh, it's just gonna be a great connection. I mean, I've been looking forward to the, to this conversation. I'm so excited. Thank you. You know, with every guest we love just to drop in and get to know a little bit about yourself, especially for listeners that Yeah.

Might not know you or your fantastic work in the world. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Hi. Okay, uh, I will begin. My name is Iris Rosa and I am reclaiming the name Santiago. I'm an immigrant from Puerto Rico who, uh, we came from Puerto Rico to East Chicago, Indiana, and it's sort of like a twin city, they call it.

And, uh, we lived in the. Part that's the harbor. Mm-hmm. So I grew up there. My father was a migrant worker, came up from Florida to Maywood and to East Chicago so that he had opportunities to work in the steel mill. So actually he came to the United States first. And then we followed about three years later.

Uh, my mom and my siblings, I went to school there. Uh, however, the. System, the school system didn't really understand culture and pec, especially the way that we bear. Our names Iris Rosa Rosa's, my father's last name, and Santiago is my, my mother's name. My mother's maiden name. And in the Latin American culture, it is automatic that.

Your father's name and your mother's name is included in the birth certificate. While they made us drop the Santiago three of our, well, my other two siblings and myself, they made us drop the Santiago because they were just so confused. So now at my age, I was like, I think I wanna reclaim. Um, reclaim my name, like, you know, they say reclaim my time.

Mm-hmm. Okay. So reclaiming my name, Iris Rosa Santiago. I, uh, ultimately went to Indiana University, uh, graduated there, bachelor's and master's, and had the opportunity to get a job at Indiana University. There was a new. Ensemble, the African-American dance company, which is called now, they were wanting to begin an artistic leg of, uh, at that time, Afro-American Studies and they needed somebody to begin working with students in the dance discipline.

I. Went down to Bloomington, Indiana University and I, uh, not auditioned, but I was interviewed. It was like an audition. Truly. Yeah, right. I interviewed for the job as director and ultimately got the job. Stayed there till I retired. I went through the ranks, uh, as a professor and associate professor, a full professor.

And now I'm Professor Emeriti of Indiana University, uh, African American and African Diaspora Studies, and also the former, the founder and former director of the African American Dance Company. And I was there for 43 years. I. Hmm. Retired 2017. Then, you know, of course was enjoying, uh, kind of my retirement and then, you know, covid hit and whatnot.

But after that I got really bored and I began thinking, what am I gonna do with my life? I. And I opened up a small dance studio in a building that is about six minutes from me, and I also created a dance company. My dance company is called Set the Negative Black Silk Dance Company. So that's what I'm doing now after retirement.

What a way to retire. Yeah.

That's awesome. Yeah, Michelle and I were talking about that before you hopped on of just, my goodness. I love seeing the website and the studio that you've created. I cannot wait to visit in dance there. While you were also a member of the African American dance company and was able to engage in, uh, what we did on campus regionally, we really had a good fortune while I was there too, to do some international travel, uh, and conferences like in Jamaica and Aha Beijing.

China. Mm-hmm. And also Santiago de Cuba. So I felt like those were some of the things that I really wanted to reach, um, before I retired, was to really take the ensemble, because it is an ensemble that exists in a PWI. Right. The ensembles, as you know, Kelly, their courses, so the courses were tied to the department and so students would be able to get credit, and this was created by a genius person and Dr.

Herman Hudson who created the ensembles, the dance company, the Soul Review, and the Choral Ensemble, and they're all courses so students could get credit. Yeah, I know. I'm forever grateful. There's, uh, dancer Charice, who we danced together as Red Steppers, and she was the one to introduce me to African American dance company, and I am forever grateful to her because my goodness.

Yeah. Your courses. Changed my life forever. Oh, thank you. And, and actually RIS is one of my dancers, and so the negative black silk dance company, and she's my assistant. I mean, she, oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. Cherise is still dancing. She loves a dance discipline. I have what, what I call, okay. I kind of stole this from, uh, what's that show?

My gladiators. She's one of my gladiators. Yeah. Scandal. That's, that's the show that I'm done scandal. Yes. Yes. Well, we're not a scandal, but you know.

So one thing that we like to ask all of our guests is about kind of where you see yourself in life right now. Like what phase of life you kind of talked about being in retirement and then starting this new venture and Yeah. Can you explain a little bit more about what phase of life you see yourself in?

That, that's a great question because I was thinking about that because I, from my perspective, we move through various phases in life. Somebody once told me that every six or seven years you go into a different phase of life. And I actually went back and I started saying, okay, I did. You know when you graduate high school and then I had like six to six years of college and then after that, six years, six to seven years, and then I got married and you know, so I.

I feel like I've been through various phases and I'm just in another phase where I am looking at life, trying to still figure out really what I want. I, I think that if we stop being curious about what we want. And how we can maneuver through life. And then it just kind of stops us from, you know, quote unquote living right.

And so I am at a phase of my life where I'm still wanting to try things. I'm still remain curious, uh, a lifelong learner that. To me, I think is, is still really important At my age in the seven, uh, you know, I'm 74 and so, but I still try to maintain. Curiosity and try to maintain connection, um, with other people.

Try to be creative because I think it also is good for the mind. So all all of that to say that I'm, I'm not in aspecific phase of my life, but in a phase that I have. Just added to my life. I think that's so inspirational just to, to remember that we can maintain that curiosity throughout our whole lives and different phases, bring out different things.

Yeah. I love when you mentioned that lifelong learning, right? Of we're always learning about ourselves, we're always learning from others, and how that Yeah. Weaves such a. Stunning tapestry in our lives. Yeah, and I, I like the way that you phrased it, you know, the tapestry. Um, because, you know, we, we, we need to keep weaving in, uh, different things that we learn in our lives to make a beautiful tapestry.

So when we look back at what we have woven, we could actually, you know, see. Our phases, you know, or the things that we've done, uh, maybe through colors, maybe through the way that that tapestry has been woven, uh, the people that we've connected with, you know, and sometimes we have just, you know, people who, you know, transition and how, how have they affected our lives, because we're always meeting new people.

So change is inevitable. Mm. Yeah. So true. Oh my goodness. Yes. Iris. We're curious about, you know, your own relationship with ritual ceremony, if there's Yeah. Any rituals that feel really important to you in your life. And it could be currently or in the past. I, um, actually was really thinking about that question because I don't have any specific rituals I have, I.

Experienced various rituals. So like, you know, a ritual of, you know, everybody has a ritual. You get up in the morning or you know, you go and you brush your teeth or whatever, and you know, I, I'm a breakfast person, so I have my breakfast. And so when I, you know, then when I do that, I'm saying, okay, I'm set for the day and I do my computer work, or I try to be creative to listen to music.

So the ritual is trying to do something each day that, oh, I need to do, right, or that I, I like to do. But then I started thinking about rituals because I grew up. Catholic, very, very Catholic in a Latinx, you know, Hispanic church, and it was rituals all the time from what, what we did. In the church or at mass, right?

Also like rituals and ceremonies. I went through my communion, my confirmation, and that involved also preparation, right rituals and ceremonies to get to that big day. And, uh, I remember like in our culture, you know, you had to have a godmother and, and, uh, you know, or in confirmation you had to kick kiss the, uh, bishop's ring.

You know, that's a, that's a ritual right there. I mean, so I remember all of those different type of things that I used to be involved in, in the weekly mass and, and, and the way that things always. Were the same every week when I, when I went to Mass. So, you know, I started thinking about, well, yeah, I, I went through a lot of those type of rituals.

Every week I did something that was, you know, con uh, consistently done. And then growing out of that and reading more about the world and re and, and knowing my own family rituals about what, you know, why do they have this here? Or, you know, why are they, you know, saying this type of prayer or. Why do they have that statue there?

And so I had started becoming more curious and started examining more about how I could become just a person that accepted other type of rituals and ceremonies from other types of spirituality. Right. And because that op not only opens you up in the, you know, opens you up, but it also, uh, makes you realize that a lot of those things are connected.

Any type of spiritual system that you believe in or that you came from and now are you're, you know, in another type of spiritual system that you're experiencing. A lot of those things are so connected because there are rituals, because there are things that people do over and over, right? And the way that people connect with each other within that concept of spirituality.

I totally agree. And you know what's interesting? I was just in New York City and we went to Mass, um, and I, I don't go to mass often, but I went with a family member and they had incense and I had no idea. That was part of the Catholic faith. But then I think about, you know, my partner's family, you know, being from Nepal and they have incense and just all these ways that we move through spirituality and yeah, it really, there's, there's so much we do have in common.

Yeah. And I, you know, now that you say incense, because in the spiritual system of which is from Nigeria and then, uh, traveled through the, uh, Atlantic slave trade to the new world, uh, there are many, many rituals, uh, because it was syncretized, you know, with the colonizers spiritual system, their own spiritual system.

Many other spiritual systems from other African nations. And one of the things is like the incense or, or cigar, you know, the smoke. Something about smoke and something about the way that it. They, people believe it purifies the air. So in anywhere that you go, you either have some form of smoke, incense or cigar or whatever, and it's, so it's interesting that, that even that particular little thing is like, oh yeah, pur Pfizer air.

So Iris, we are curious. What it means to you to be inclusive of all dancers and genres. That's a great question because, you know, I just did this talk, uh, the other day. I was a luminary Oh. Of the performing arts center in, in Carmel. And, uh, I did talk about, um, my very early days of teaching at Indiana University, uh, with the African American dance company and my background as a modern dancer.

And how I was going to maneuver and negotiate, you know, begin this dance company and you know, what focus I wanted, all of those type of questions that, uh, I had, you know, during the first year, during the first couple of years. I thought though that it was gonna be very important, first of all, because it was a course and it had to be open to everyone, right?

And that was very important because, uh, the more diversity you have in a group and then the more ideas, the more movement styles, the more experiences. I know that when I talk about lived experiences, I mean at 18, 19 years. Oh, the student doesn't have a lot of, you know, lived experiences, but some that they could bring.

Right. And their ideas, their curiosity, and. Then because I was so concentrated on modern dance, I thought that it was important for me to expand my palette and experiencing other. Genres. So I went to New York. I took classes in Jazz and West African and ultimately did some traveling and did some Afro-Cuban.

Just expanding my perspective in dance. Also helped me a lot in trying to create dances or choreograph pieces and types of works that had meaning to the students because they're the, they were the ones that were going to perform, right? But also to the audience, you know, what are we expressing to the audience?

What type of expression? And I began. To be more of a storyteller, being able to just intersect a lot of the genres that I studied and, and that were available to me to fuse them together, but it also added a wider vocabulary to my dance making. Right. So I mean, I could have stayed within the modern dance genre, but I mean, what kind of, I, I was limited in the vocabulary, so adding the other genres and experimenting and exploring and examining those genres, studying those genres.

My, my, my vocabulary widened. As far as being able to be a creative person, then students, when they became more savvy, okay, we're talking about, you know, like the seventies and eighties and the nineties. And students would come in a little bit more savvy, a little bit more red because you know, things were changing in the world, right?

Things were changing, politics were changing, and they came in with more of a curiosity and then. I was like, wow, yes. You know, let, let, let me examine this and even widen the vocabulary and widen their palette of expression. And I thought that being able to do that really helped me as a choreographer and as a teacher.

Now my focus however, was, and it still is with Southern Negative Black Silk Dance Company, is the focus. Was on the lived experiences of the people of the African diaspora. So it's kind of that triangle from Africa to the New world, to the United States. You know, there are so many stories that we could tell, right?

And then experiencing this widened vocabulary that I, that I was experimenting with also, the stories are endless. The stories really are endless. I wanna just highlight like so much intentionality and. Really, I mean, really give so much credit here, Iris, to you and being a storyteller, I mean, being a former dancer of yours, I think sometimes in the dance world, right, we can learn choreography, it's like, and go do it.

And you always were reminding us, right? Like, we're, how is the audience gonna perceive the movement? Mm-hmm. And, and not only just the dance as a whole, but like. Every single movement we did, it felt like there was such an infusion of meaning making behind that. And that makes you stand out to me and just have tr such a special place in my heart.

'cause yeah, not every choreographer does that. I. Well, and it's interesting because when you, you know, you'd say African American dance company, people always had a preconceived notion of what the, the company could do, right? Or who was in the company. Uh, what type of dance styles, you know, do you do, do you do hip hop, do you do jazz?

And then when they would see the company and they would see the stories, uh, they would really get another idea of what dance could be. And so I, I always had a challenge, you know, with that, about the way other people perceived, even stereotype even before, uh, they saw the company. Because I'm sure that, you know, there's some students that, well, well, you know, you're, you're white, why you're in the African American dance company, and.

I was really happy though that pe, that students would say, well, I'm in it because I'm learning X and we're doing X and we're expressing X. And that was mostly from the perspectives of the African diaspora, the stories and whatnot. So once you're really clear about what the students are gonna be learning and doing, and then they're able to articulate that to other people.

Kind of that difference of, oh, I like that move, I'm just gonna regurgitate it, versus really understanding the roots of it and honoring that. Yes, yes. Um, and, uh, so I mean, you know, sometimes it was a 5, 6, 7, 8, you know, type of, of peace, right? Uh, you gotta do this on the five. But, uh, a lot of times what I really wanted to do was I, I have this thing called the, uh, individual in the collective.

Right. So you bring that individuality in your expression as you move through space with the other dancers. And then that way it becomes more a connection between the dancers, uh, because you know that they're, everybody knows that they're doing the same movement, but they have this opportunity to be themselves for a little bit too.

I remember in, in this course, you'd have us kind of break up into groups outside of studio time. We would meet up and we'd have to create a piece together and that was so inspiring. 'cause all of us are coming in and we did always start with where are you from? What's your background like? Because to create a piece together, right?

We needed to understand what individually are we bringing? To this collective piece. And again, I'm like, that was so unique how you structured that for us. And it's something, you know, I, of course it still holds such a weight in my memory. Those were called collaborations, right? Collaborations. And, uh, so what I would do, Michelle, is, you know, 'cause Kelly was in involved in the process, we would talk about an overarching theme.

So we would have a discussion about history, culture, spirituality, social issues, and we would select an overarching theme. So let's say one of the themes would be. You know, freedom or confinement or folklore. And then I would divide everybody into groups intentionally putting together group a group that various ethnic backgrounds, a freshman and a senior.

So the group in itself was diverse in many ways. And as you said, Kelly, that you had to discuss with each other. First, who are you? What do you wanna do here? What are your ideas and everything? And then they would start working together, select the music, and it would be sort of like a subcategory of the overarching theme.

And then they would express that it. Worked. I must say that it worked every time. Every time. Some stunning, some stunning pieces. So the first part of the concert was always the collaborations, and then the second part was a longer piece. That I would set, uh, onto dancers because then that gave an opportunity for students to really actually be part of dance making.

Right? And then the second part was like, then they were, they were mine. But that's, I think it's cool, like. How different, you know, different perspectives can approach dance because so much of classical dance can be like, really everybody has to be exactly the same. So that's, yeah, I like that approach of.

Everybody brings like their own little piece to it. The sum is greater than the parts, right? I have to say that it was very organized and they had very organized dance pieces that they, that they would create. I mean, they had, uh, things that they had to have included in. There are pieces, and I think that that also brought out quality.

I always say dance is a discipline. People say, well, why do you say it's a discipline? Why is this like, history is a discipline. Math is a discipline, dance is a discipline. And within that, students learn protocol. They learn other types of discipline within the space, and they learn how to deal with each other.

Right. And then deal with, well, I, you know, I would even have collaborations with like maybe, uh, a, a colleague, a another professor. I know I had, that was in 2003. I had a collaboration with one of my colleagues who was in history and. So being able just to also read what we were, what we were expressing was really important because all of those things bring together, you know, just, um, not only a dance piece, but something that was gonna be really quality and expressive.

Iris. I wonder, because I love what you shared at the beginning about getting to like go to other countries and I'm curious, did you bring dance there? Were you learning from the dancers? You know, what that experience was like? Maybe you could speak a little bit to that too. Travel, you know, really influenced and.

And widen my vocabulary and palette and dance. I've been very fortunate and some of some places I did teach and I would study with the people there. I would observe also, you know, traditional dances. I, I did that in Guyana. Ghana, Dominican Republic, ivory Coast. Uh, I did a collaborative with a company that we brought from Ivory Coast to Indianapolis back in the late nineties.

We were able to go to China, Beijing, Cuba, which I've been a few times, and, uh, Jamaica and all those places I was able to teach, but I was able to learn, also able to be a student. And just because I am, you know, where I am in my life, doesn't mean that I cannot be a student. Mm-hmm. When I go to a class and I wanna learn, I am a student, you have to really humble yourself.

Yes. Right to, uh, learn. So if it's a traditional dance, you're learning history, you're learning culture, you're learning social issues, you are learning spirituality because you can't com, hard to alize all of those things. Hmm. Yeah, I really resonate with that. One thing that we, you know, we wanna help our listeners with is understanding just how to deal with life's changes and transitions better.

And I know a lot of your work is about the, you know, diaspora and migration and kind of processing through movement. So can you share a little bit about, from your perspective, how you feel like movement can help people process those changes? Yes. Now that I have my own company, so the Negro Black Silk Dance Company, it's like for me, moving into another phase of choreography and expression because I'm outside the university walls.

Right. And it's not a course, it's not, I could do a little bit more of experimentation. Actually. The dancers are, many of the dancers were, are, uh, were African American dance company dancers who. Happen to live in Indianapolis. In Indianapolis. But the differences now is that they're older. Their life experiences are a little bit more, you know, numerous.

They're a little, they're more mature, right? And that, you know, it's just because they're older. When you get older, you see and experience more of the world. One of the themes that I. I guess because of of my own experiences, I liked the theme of immigration and we did the show, we're in our third season, so our first season it was Voyages and Journeys and really exploring, um, movement from one place to the other, the whole top of of immigration and.

Even though the dancers weren't quote unquote immigrants, but you might have traveled from one city to another. How does that feel from one state to another? How does that feel? We use suitcases, right, as props, and it was like, what do you, what do we carry in those suitcases? Do we carry our life dreams?

Do we carry tangible objects? Intangible memories. What are we carrying in these suitcases as we move through life? And so I like to sort of focus on that particular topic of immigration. But you know, also, we're, we're doing this one concert now this, that is focused on strength and perseverance. Ooh. And that's, is that this she.

This is this year. Last year we did. What happens in the crossroads when you hit a cross, when you're at the crossroads, how do you decide what road to take? And so that's deep. So the concept was from the efa spiritual system of Orishas, and we experimented and explored the Orisha. Ua, who is the Orisha that opens the pathways?

Say a little bit more about that. Okay, so in the FO system, um, and now there, there's a very complicated system of Saints or Orishas and in the new world, because the enslaved could not practice their own spiritual system because you know, the colonizers imposed theirs. And in this particular case, Catholicism.

They created this very complicated system of syn synchronizing their Orishas and Catholic Saints. Oh, fascinating. So Eua is Nino Dicha, which is a child because Eli Gu has qualities of a child, very intelligent, but Eua also opens the doors and pathways to our lives. That's the job of that particular Saint Orisha, but it was synchronized with this Catholic saint.

Which was a child. So what they would do is like, okay, what are the characteristics of Eua and what are the characteristics of this, you know, saint over here in the Catholicism, and how do we kind of match 'em up? You know, we're actually in the church and the Catholic. Doctrine and all of that, but Saturday night they would be able to celebrate their own spiritual practices.

So that's in a nutshell, and I know somebody out there was saying, well, maybe that's not really, but it, you know, that's just in a nutshell because it's very, very, very complicated. So last year when we were, um, experimenting and exploring this whole idea of crossroads and elegua, opening the doors, the pathways to our lives, trying to figure out, you know, what road to take.

And so we sort of invoked the energy, uh, this Orisha. So this time is the Orisha Ogun, which is the Orisha of. Strength and owns metal, the Orisha of War and Justice, and using those concepts and sort of invoking that energy for our show of strength and perseverance. So I always try to have, again, an overarching theme and then how does that trickle down where everybody could relate to?

What is strength and perseverance for you? Hmm. So I have 'em write down. I give them either little sticky note and I'll ask a question and I said, okay, write something down. And then I take the sticky note and I put it on the bulletin board. Having them come up with some movements, having, you know, saying, okay, you guys go in that corner and give me, you know, three to four, eight counts about this.

Or you know. So I do that and then I. Pull it all together so they're invested in the creation of the piece. How does this come forward for you? Like, I don't know, are there rituals around your creativity? Are you walking and then these ideas come up or I like, you're just such a creative soul and I'm wondering, yeah, what this looks like.

You know, that is interesting because I had practically the same question in my presentation on Tuesday. I'm handling them,

and her question though was, do you listen to your ancestors when you are creating? And I said the long and short of it. Yes. Hmm. Because it's, and I said it's like writing an article when people write books or articles, whether they're academic or what, whatever, you have to start with a thought. Mm-hmm.

Something that you like to write about and then you have this process, oh, I should write about this. How did that come about? Oh, I'm gonna write about this. Okay, let me start writing. And then you start writing and writing and writing. And then you start rewriting and then somebody reads it and then you rewrite it again, and then you more thoughts come and, and whatnot.

And. It's like a rehearsal. I don't know. I, I get this idea. Mm-hmm. And I start choreographing, putting movements together. How does this feel? How does that feel? And it could be from a historical lens, a social lens, spiritual lens. You know, I start putting things together with music that motivates my creativity.

And I start, you know, putting things together, movements together, and then I teach 'em. And then we rehearse and we rehearse like a writer rewrites and rewrite. And so choreography, you know, dance making is sort of the same thing. We rehearse and rehearse it. There has to be a certain time where you say, you know it, this is it, this is the story.

Yes. And then you present it to an audience. That's your, like a, the publisher, right? Accepting your work. You finally put it in front of an audience and then you know what happens to somebody who writes a book or an article, you get reviewed. So what I'm saying is that the creative process in dance is very similar to other creative processes like, you know, even visual art, you know?

Where do you get the idea when you strike that pen, pencil, paintbrush on a canvas. So that question that that young lady asked was very similar to yours in a sense, but she was like, do you listen to your ancestors? And I said, yes, because where did, where does it come from? Yeah. There's such a element of, yeah, I don't know if divine resonates or, yes.

Yeah. Divine interventions somehow, yes. Thank you for the divine interventions in our lives. Really? Yes. Yeah. Creativity is, it's, it's a beautiful thing, you know, but I just do it. But you have to be really open so the ideas can flow with music, with movements and, and everything you, you know, you have to humble yourself to accepting what is given to you from the universe.

Mm. Mm-hmm. And how powerful when we're in a place of creation. I know Michelle and I have talked about that. Even doing this podcast, you know of, it's amazing how differently we move through the world when we're creating and from a place of joy and heart and yeah, I'm so grateful for just these different projects in our lives because you're right, Iris, like they, they do change as we get older and our life experiences, you know it all.

It all is being impacted. One question I have maybe for the, for the listeners that maybe aren't at the level of professional dance or joining a company, do you have any thoughts on how people could integrate some of this ideas around honoring different dances or incorporating new dance styles into their lives that are Yeah, just like casual home dancers, I think it's, um, for people to always stay.

Open and try new things. Like, okay, I am, for example, a street dancer in salsa, right? And so I decided to audition, one of my former students has an organization, a, you know, a business, and she had all these SALSA teams or bachata teams, and I was like, well, I've never really done that way before. And shoot.

I was like, since about 2018, 19 dancing salsa, but the studio style, because I'm, like I said, I'm, I'm a street dancer, so going into a real organized way of learning salsa was redoing everything that I had learned out in the street. Right. And then, oh, this is a right turn. This is a cross body lead. This is, you know, very, very codified.

I didn't know that, but I'm so glad that I, that I did that right? Because it gave me another way to look at the genre of salsa. And so all of that to say is that anybody out there is that. Really just get into a class. If you don't know a genre, just take a beginning class. But also the very experienced dancers also take a beginning class in another genre that you're not used to.

Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. You, we have to humble ourselves to do that. This is inspiring me 'cause I've always wanted to try tap dance, but like I didn't, in my brain I'm like, oh, I never did tap dance since I was three, so I should not step foot in a tap dance class. But this is, this is my sign. So thank you Michelle for the question, Iris for this answer.

'cause I, this summer I'm gonna take a beginning tap class is just going out there to do it. Challenging yourselves, accepting you know, who you are in the class. Being, being curious and being brave. Uh. I never thought that I would be able to dance salsa in this competitive cabaret style, and I was rocking my costumes too.

Oh, okay. Well, that might be one of the pictures to put on the website, but the thing is, is that I had to get over the fear. Of moving. 'cause you know, I mean I moved in a certain style but in then in a codified style. And then I was like, oh, I can't do this. I can't do this. And I had to relax about it. I really had to relax about it.

And I love what you highlighted too, that there might be like resistance might come up. 'cause I think for sometimes it's easy for us to think, oh, if resistance is there, I'm, I'm just not gonna do it. But knowing by trying these new things, yeah. The resistance is normal and it is a sign of bravery. Yes.

Yeah,

I'd be very brave putting on them heels and that.

Well, before we do our ritual, Michelle, I do wanna just celebrate the 50th anniversary of the African American Dance Company. Oh. And we just wanted to ask you Yeah, how you're gonna mark this special time. This is just such a huge moment. I never would have thought that I would see. The 50th celebration anniversary year, I was very, very fortunate that after I retired, a young man stepped in Stafford Berry Jr.

Who has been there now eight years. And you know, I just passing the torch to him and he has done a fantastic job. They call him Baba Safford. And so we were talking about what is it about the 50th year? It's not just a weekend, it's not just a, you know, a one day celebration. Yay, yay, yay. You know, Friday and Saturday everybody go home Sunday.

So what we, we were talking about, because I said, look, you know, I'm not there anymore, but whenever you need me, you call me. You know? And so we were starting to talk about what. A 50th celebration would look like. And they did have, you know, a, a, a couple of events that are leading into the 50th celebration.

We had a, her story, I showed some of my film, you know, videos, his story, he showed his, and then we came together to talk and show some more to let the audience know. I mean, we talk about 50 years, but people don't know what that looks like. Mm-hmm. So then we're gonna have the celebration for that weekend, but then we're gonna continue with some more events until the end of the year.

Mm-hmm. Because we don't want people to forget that it's been 50 years. You know, we're, we're, we're, we wanna make this a real special celebration. One of the things also is that in these uncertain times of the dismantling of DEI, because Indiana University, they dismantled that particular office. They moved, like the institute is now under the department, African-American, African Diaspora studies.

The Black Culture Center is, I think with student life, you know, they move some of these organizations around. And we are thinking sustainability of the African American dance company that have served students, so, so, so many students. I mean, I'm gonna have a little alumni piece. Kelly, I wish you could be there.

Oh. And I'm looking at some former students who are 58, 59, 60 years old who want to dance. We're doing a little chaka con. I was like, I wanted to bridge together the older alumni, the, the, the, the younger alumni. What is sustainability? What has the past, the present, and what is the future gonna be? Looking like and asking for people to find in their hearts to donate for the sustainability of an ensemble in a PWI, predominantly white institution.

That has served everyone, every background. I even had, I remember having a hearing impaired dancer who actually we used some of her sign language in a dance. Oh yes. I mean. So when, when we talk about DEI, it's not just, you know, talking about race. Mm-hmm. There are so many diverse people that have come through African American dance company.

Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. Hmm. Powerful.

Hmm. Well, I am, my goodness, I'm feeling so many things ins inspired is what's really standing out. And I think this is one of those conversations where. Ideas for rituals are gonna keep popping up and keep zinging, and I always feel that way around Iris. Just this dynamic, just such a dynamic force and.

For me, I, I'm feeling really struck. Um, for listeners that don't know me really well, you know, I am a dancer and I do stick with genres that I'm more comfortable with. So for the past, gosh, how many years has it been now? Maybe seven years. I've been a part of a dance company in Colorado and I am in the jazz company and I love it.

And I sometimes take ballet classes, but you know. Have done ballet in the past and from this conversation I'm like, I just, I feel so called to take these beginner classes. Uh, I know we've got a beginner tap class. I also am really intrigued by swing. There's a lot of intersectionality with swing dance that I, I definitely don't wanna speak to 'cause I am not an expert, but also Iris, from your words of wisdom today.

Understanding the history. So while I'm taking these beginning classes, reading books, watching older tapes or videos, and making it feel immersive because even though. Maybe the teachers aren't gonna do that and they might, you know, I don't wanna make assumptions, but knowing I can do that part, you know, I can be an active participant in learning these new styles.

And I love what you said too, that dance is a discipline. Even the ritual of before I walk in the studio, saying that to myself could be a really powerful way to drop in. Because it is, whenever I'm in any dance studio, it's just such a sacred time. Just so much melts away for me. So thank you for everything you shared today.

Of course, my pleasure. I mean, you know, when we walk into a room, we are connected with other. Uh, human beings and their energy, and we need to exude, uh, the positive energy, right? So in case anybody comes in with, you know, energy that's not so woo balanced, uh, sometimes we need to be that person that balances somebody else's energy, you know, to help out a little bit.

Yeah, and like our antennas. It's so interesting and I hope for listeners that yeah, have never taken a dance class to take one 'cause that being in a space with people that are expressing through their bodies. Is so liberating. And you know, I think about a fellow dancer I'm with in the jazz company and her movement felt different one week and I just checked in, I said, you know, hey Aubrey, like, is everything okay?

And her grandma had just died, but she didn't even tell the class. It was just how her body was moving differently that day. And I think it helps us tune into people. Yeah. In, in such a unique way that we can carry forward even outside of the dance studio. Absolutely. Yeah. I definitely feel inspired to take a dance class right now.

Yes, Michelle. Yeah, I mean, I have, I've, I haven't taken one in a really long time, but yeah, I, I feel like I am classic. I like I'm more of the freestyle movement. I, I don't like discipline as much, so I, I am feeling inspired by that, finding the balance between. Discipline and creativity and freedom and thinking more about that.

And I've also been, I play the violin and I've been playing a little bit more. So I've been thinking about that too. Could, that could apply here as well. Like I sort of how I've been structuring my lesson, my like practices as I do like my discipline, like my scales and my things. And then I give myself some like, time to have fun and play fun music too.

So. That's another area to apply that. Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, um, just the a a actively participating, you know, in the, in instrument and just Yes, like dance. Yeah. The music and movement link. And you brought that up. Michelle, did you have any rituals that came to mind? Iris? Ooh, no pressure if you don't.

So many, so many I think is when I go to class, I always try to be present. I. And I want my dancers to be present in the time that we're rehearsing or in, in a class is to be present, to be observant, to be kind, leave all of crazy stuff. You know, not even at the door before you come into the studio. You can pick it up later after week, but when you come in is to be present.

I feel that. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. This was, yeah, so inspiring. I'm definitely gonna be thinking about this for a long time. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And you know, letting me share, I. Uh, my experiences and my life.

Well, ritual fam, as always, we hope that you enjoy today's episode, and we would love to hear from you. You can reach us at our website, ritual sisters pod.com, or on our Instagram at Ritual Sisters Pod. Our website was created by the amazing, brazen creative, that's BRZN Creative. We put lots of fun events there and rituals of the month, and there's a little contact form on there.

You're gonna want that one because you can send us your questions, your thoughts, your critiques, if you want. You can tell us about the rituals that you've been doing or if you tried any rituals out from the episode. Yeah, just talk to us. We'd love to hear from you. The music on our podcast was created by our dear friend, Hannah Butler.

We said, Hey, do you wanna write a song for us? And she did. And it is beautiful. So wherever you're at. Morning, afternoon, middle of the night at your coven. We hope that you have a magical time. Goodbye

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