Welcome to Ritual Sisters, the podcast where your hosts and fellow travelers, Michelle and Kelly, explore the ways that ritual can help you feel better through the ups and downs of life. So let's take a deep breath and start this journey together.

All right, ritual Fam. Well, today we have an amazing guest. We have Susanna Barkataki. She is a bestselling author of two. Books about yoga. She's a viral speaker and founder of Ignite and Yo Yoga, and she's here to talk to us about yoga and activism and understanding yoga's roots. So welcome, Susanna. Thank you so much.

I'm so excited to be here with you and explore ritual and all the, the magical, fun, creative things. Yes. So, yeah, let's just start by hearing a little bit about you and kind of what season of life you're in right now. Yeah. I feel like I'm in spring, even though I am also, you know, getting to that point where.

Body is changing, energy is changing, you know, midlife type of vibes. But I'm really like full of ideas, full of energy, creative sparks all over the place, and just kind of honoring the ebbs and flows. So I would say like spring with a little bit of fall like. Taking care of the radical change that can come and kind of the winds that blow.

And, um, so a little bit of those transitionary seasons. It's nice that it's kind of the transition on both ends, the spring and the fall. I love that. Susanna, I just got so many just gorgeous images from what you said, so thank you. Yeah. What did you see? Oh my gosh. There's this, um, you know, when leaves do this.

Movement, you know, it's, it's the swirling, but it feels like that suspension and air, right, when they're kind of floating, drifting down. But the movement can change depending on the leaf. So kind of honoring those ebbs and flows, honoring the different rhythms. Um, and that can be, I think, day to day, moment to moment.

So, thank you. Hmm. That's beautiful. Yeah. Michelle and I were excited to ask you, especially, you know, with this podcast being all about ritual, how would you say yoga and ritual relate to each other? Hmm. Yeah. I wanna say for people listening, because in the West we can often think of yoga as like, you have to look a certain way or have a certain clo, you know, clothes or be flexible.

When I talk about yoga, I mean like the expanded version of what yoga is. Mm-hmm. Like connected to its roots, which is like a way of life, a practice. It's inclusive of everyone. You can have a bigger body, you can be totally inflexible, you can be older. You can be younger, right. It's like, so when I'm talking about yoga in relationship to ritual, it's that, it's like the big capital y yoga, not like just fitness yoga.

So, so if you're listening, you're like, I don't care about yoga because I don't fit in. Maybe, or maybe there, it just, there it hasn't been expressed to you in a way that welcomes you. Right. Because yoga, the cultural practice is so inclusive and it's so embedded with ritual for me, a lot of the time it's.

You know, sometimes it's formal ritual like doing tr tech, which is like candle gazing before I go to bed instead of, uh, looking at my phone, right? Mm-hmm. It can be a practice that I take on or that, you know, is, is open and available to anyone to try. Could be Asana or the physical practice of yoga in the morning or evening or whenever, um, meditation.

But for me, a lot of it is just like that. For me, A ritual is an anchor or Yeah, like a crutch, almost like, like a thing. By crutch, I mean. Not like a negative thing, but a thing that holds, right? Like I broke my leg when I was eight. I had to use crutches. They were really helpful because then I could walk, you know, and get around.

So it's like a, a support for the mind. And that is literally the translation of the first yoga sutra. It is actually Sutra 1.22 or 1.2 yoga. Ti yoga is the support of the fluctuations of our minds. So any practice that supports our mind in being more unified, more whole to me is a ritual. You know, it's, and in the yoga sutures, but goes on to describe many, many different practices.

And then there's one sutra that says. Do anything that works, right? So it's so radically inclusive. I love that inclusivity. And I personally also need the structure right of, yes, I'm gonna meditate. I'm going to do some movement on my mat every day. So I think yoga can be more structured ritual. It can also be more like open-ended.

And to me that's part of like the fun and the beauty of it. Hmm. Yeah. That's amazing. And I love even just that, how you're describing the crutch and like thinking about how we view even just like different abilities that we use that term in a negative way when it's really just a natural thing that sometimes you need something to support different parts of yourself and that it just makes sense.

Yeah. Hmm. Susanna, you spoke about this a little bit, but I'd love to dive in just a touch more of what do you wish people knew about yoga? Like, I love how you said that. Capital y? Yeah. For yoga, because I, you know, for some listeners, I imagine they do practice, but for others, yeah, they might feel like.

They haven't even wanted to go to a yoga class outta fear of judgment or all those different pieces. Yeah. You know, yoga is a whole way of life. Right? It's, it's, I wish people knew that in the Yoga Sutras, there's like an eight limbs path. So from Asana is the third, the physical practice is the third. But before the Asana, our yoga ethics, like how we are with each other.

And yoga codes, the nema, which is like how we are with ourselves. Then there's pranayama, which is like how we work with our life force, including boundaries, right? Mm-hmm. Setting boundaries as part of yoga Prra, which is like sense, like what we're focusing our senses on Darna, which is mindfulness, so everything that we do.

Doing it with mindfulness, Deanna, meditation, and then samati, which is bliss and joy and like freedom and liberation, and that can sound really. Like far away, but even just like little moments of like, oh, that person cut me off and I'm not flipping them off. Right. Like literally that can be somebody in real, real time, real world on the streets of la which is where I live.

So, um, so yeah. I also wanna bring in. Ayurveda, which is the sibling science to yoga, and they're all like kind of Vedic practices. And just to set the context for folks listening who might not know, we're talking practices like 2,500 years ago in what is now Pakistan and the Indi River Valley, Sara Swee, river Valley, Northeast India, you know, um, that region.

So there are cities and towns. They're quite developed and advanced for that period. And then there were people who said, wait. Even though with all these advancements, we're not happy, I'm not happy, my community isn't happy, I'm gonna go off into the woods, you know, sit at the base of mountains in the forest and try to understand like what actually causes suffering and what relieves suffering.

And so. During that time there was this flourishing of yogic practitioners. You know, some of them, they use different names, but it's in that context that yoga was developed, and also Ayurveda, which is a science of life, kind of the sibling science to yoga and Ayurveda. Looks at the rhythm of the world that seasons, or even the rhythm of the day and the elements, earth, water, fire airspace, and tries to support us in being more in harmony with those elements.

And so the reason I bring this in is like for me, this was what helped yoga come off the mat even more was learning about Ayurveda and bringing in. Kind of the rituals of how I can reconnect to my own natural rhythm, but also the natural rhythm of what's happening around me. So like right now, it's very hot where I live.

So I'm bringing in rhythms of like going in the water, you know, running, like running cool water over my hands or over my feet just to like, calm down, cool down. Drinking, you know, cool beverages, right? Like simple things that can become a ritual. Everyday things of reconnecting to that balance and that harmony.

Michelle and I have been really connecting with water too, so Susanna. Yes, we are with you. We just, it was so exciting. There were a 10 of us women who went out and did a paddleboard at Sunset, and then we stayed on the water, got to see the stars, and watched the moon rise and Oh, it was, yeah, the water element and how nourishing that can be, especially during that summertime season.

Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah.

Okay. In your first book, honor Yoga's Roots, you talk a lot about the meaning of the word yoga as yoke, as unity, and I think. Sometimes we're taught that that's kind of the, the union between body and mind, but I, I really loved how you expanded that out of the unity of all of us, of all of us beings. So I would love to hear more about your perspective on that and how we can use that concept of yoga as unity in our day-to-day lives.

Yeah. The very first. Yoga ethic. The yamas is ahimsa, which is like non harm. And that of course can be personal, like personal self care, right? Caring for ourselves. It can be relational like with other people, with our friends, partners, coworkers, kids, you know. And then it can also be universal or systemic, right?

Like caring for systems that either heal or harm. And for the earth, right? For all beings. So that's one. And then the last of the yoga suture of the, uh, not the sutures, but of the nema is Ishvara prana, which one of my colleagues, I love his translation, Dr. Shanahan translates it as sovereignty, right? So it can be devotion to the divine, which for some of us who are religious or spiritual, right?

Like that makes sense. But for atheists or agnostic folks. And for everyone. I think sovereignty is a really beautiful framing to bring in. Like what creates sovereignty, meaning self-rule or self autonomy, empowerment. Not just again, for ourselves, but for others. And so when you kind of bring those two, the very first of the yamas and the last of the yamas together, like in this beautiful circle, how do we practice non harm care for ourselves in our community and and in the world in a way that creates the opportunity for sovereignty, right?

For self-rule? And that is such a great guiding. Question. It's a good guiding question in my life. Like, I'm often asking myself things like, you know, when this happens, when that happens, I'll, you know, concrete example, like a few years ago my grandmother passed away, which, you know, she lived a long, wonderful life and I love her very much.

Um, but you know, she had, she was like in her nineties and she left a little bit of money to me and my brother, and so it was like this surprise. Kind of influx and it's like, okay, great. You know, what are we gonna do with this asset? And the initial thought was like, oh, we had a little tiny little house.

Like, okay, we're gonna build on like another story to this house. And um, and then we're like, what would actually bring the most kind of growth and support personally, um, socially. Spiritually for us, like me and my partner, we had a little kiddo at that time. Like, okay, actually what will support us and our community is if we turn our backyard into a space where we can host yoga classes, meditation circles, right?

So we're, we took that influx of. Abundance and then used it in a way that kind of fed and nurtured all of us. And so asking the question like, how can this support me, my community, right? Maybe the world is something that I try to do often. And then a simple way of phrasing it is like. Is this bringing more unity or is it bringing less, you know, and, and that can be kind of like a helpful, a helpful self-check.

And that book, the first book really goes into it. 'cause the way that we use yoga in the West actually think a lot of times, unfortunately, can cause separation. You know, it's like you have to look a certain way. You have to. Have a certain amount of money to buy certain clothing, you know, your teacher's talking about, and I'm gonna say, so content warning, like, you know, get that summer body or like yoga abs, or now we've got yoga boobs, right?

Which is like a whole plastic surgery thing. It's perpetuating these. Things that are not actually bringing real happiness or real joy or real contentment, but that are, are harming us, you know, as individuals and as a society. And so it's hard when yoga's used in that way, as opposed to when it's actual uses, which is like a focus for freedom, making us more free and more empowered rather than like more kind of feeling like we're doing things wrong.

Yeah, and I love that question. You said Susanna of Yeah, how can this, you know, impact me, my community, the world? Really lovely grounding question. Did you all get to change the outdoor setup or is that still in process? It. We made a beautiful yoga studio and, um, it was very humble, right? Like just a little backyard, um, space outdoors and then indoor garage that we converted into a studio and like did all the work ourselves.

It was so beautiful. We hosted a meditation there, meditation circle, weekly for free for, I guess it was probably like five years. And then due to life circumstances, just, you know, for folks. I thought I was gonna be living in that house forever. I thought my kid was gonna go to the school I worked at. I was a teacher, um, fifth and sixth grade teacher.

My partner had a job he loved, he lost his job. I lost my job. All of a sudden we're like. Oh my gosh. Feels like LA is kicking us out and we were kind of had to go where the work was, which was all the way across the country somewhere. We never even planned to visit. We ended up moving to Florida. Right.

Okay. Yeah, so. That place is, you know, we had let it go. We're happy to pass it on to someone who would use it in whatever way they used it. Mm-hmm. But it did also was in Altadena and it did burn in the fire, which is, so, it's like, talk about impermanence and letting go, you know, truly. Yeah. The family that lived there was okay.

They, they didn't, you know, they, they lived, but they lost there. Their place, which is so, so sad. Um, so yeah, just a lot of letting go, a lot of learning that lesson of like, sometimes you create a beautiful thing and it is that thing for a time. And maybe the essence of, 'cause you know, we called it like Saga or Tranquil Lotus.

Um, it's not. It doesn't have to be attached to a particular place or a person. And the sangha, the spiritual, like meditation group continues, you know, now, a decade later, um, it just meets somewhere else, you know? And different people lead it. We like, have shared leadership. I love that. That it's what you created the feeling.

It doesn't have to be attached to those, you know? Mm-hmm. Tangible things that we, that are ephemeral. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big lesson when I'm still learning. Yeah. Yeah. Talk about lots of just moving parts there. Big, big transitions. Yeah. Well, Susanna, with the rest of our time, we definitely wanted to ask you about your new book, ignite Your Yoga, and having it be about yoga's activism.

So we wanted to ask you, what can yogic principles teach us about activism? I will say the second book, it's full of stories for, so for folks who are like, oh, do I have to start with the first or the second? Mm-hmm. I would say if you want more of like a workbook and kind of breaking things down, like that's the first book.

Second book is like stories and tales and way to apply, you know, the practices. So yoga and activism, the very first thing, and I wanna just read. Very short section on moving into conscious leadership says it perfectly. There are many ways to serve and make a difference in the world. Don't get tripped up on having your activism, your way of being a change maker or a yoga teacher, right, or a spiritual practitioner.

Whatever it is, look like someone else's path. All is welcome when you choose to act in accordance with yogic principles. When you discover your dharma, if you think you're not doing enough. Or we'll never be that kind of leader. Know that there's a way that yoga or whatever it is, is moving through you in only the way that you can offer and only the way that you can show up and that our world really needs.

So I would say this book goes into one, like the different ways we can lead. Whether that's with yoga or just in our lives, you know, like as parents, as teachers, whatever roles that we're in and gives like a clear breakdown. There's a chapter that, um, I don't remember which chapter it is, but that goes through the different elements, um, and elemental.

Kind of leadership qualities, like I'm more of a fiery, an airy leader. Right. Have lots of ideas. I get stuff done, I'm like always coming up with new things. Mm-hmm. It's super fun. And then I'm a little provocative too. That's like the fire, if you follow me on social, you're gonna be like, Ooh, okay. Had a thought of it that way, you know?

Love your social. I have to say, I love your posts and I feel that fire come through. Yes. And then when you meet me in person, I'm like, you know, or hopefully you can hear on this, on this recording, like, I'm super sweet. I'm really not gonna judge you. You know, I'm just like, I. And then there's people who lead, who are much more grounded, like they're earth-based leaders or they're water-based leaders.

They're more fluid, they're more flowing. They're kind of like looking at people and systems. There's just so many ways to lead. And so understanding how we lead best is, for me, one part of activism. And then there's so many ways to be an activist. And the last chapter is all about yoga as. You know, there's a section of the book where I say like, yoga isn't yoga until you're giving it away.

Right? And remember, what is yoga? It's unity, right? Unity, our own liberation. Is more possible the more that we see other people's liberation, more that we care for and practice for, right? So it's all about sharing yoga as a sacred practice. And then I go through different tactics for change. We're not all gonna do each one, right?

There's direct service, like for some folks listening, maybe you're offering. You know, moon circles or ritual circles, right? That's direct service. That's really impactful. That can change people's lives. Could change your life as a facilitator and the people who come, there's things like viral, like social, like people who wanna kind of like spark things, or kind of like my social, like viral social media gorilla, advocacy, political organizing, community organizing.

Building alternative institutions, like creating that world. We wanna see, you know, spiritual change making. There's just so many ways to create change and, and instead of critiquing ourselves or others for doing things a different way, it's like, well, what can we do if we're all working to making a better world, a more beautiful like, creative, playful, ritual filled world?

Mm-hmm. To me, to be really honest, ritual. Is absolutely necessary. Like what is the world that we wanna live in? I, I think we have to have that care for ancestors and for the natural elements and for ritualizing our relationship to them. And in activist spaces, we so often miss that and sometimes we can.

Put ourselves in boxes or define like, I am an activist. I am, you know, a ritualist and great if that's helpful. But also how can we kind of bridge those or merge those? And I definitely think activist spaces could do better to honor the ritual and like, welcome it, welcome it in. But we don't have, you know, we don't even have to call it that.

We can just be doing the beautiful work of making, uh, a better world. Yeah, I just listened to or watched a YouTube video about the progression of ritual and how in the past it was such an integral part of our lives and how we processed, you know, change and different aspects of ourselves. But then as society got more industrialized and kind of modernized, people didn't want as much ritual because it took away from our productivity.

And so over time, ritual has become so much more about capitalism and. What we can profit from it. So I think that really like dovetails well with what you're talking about, that kind of going back to more of a heart centered ritual practice and something that brings us together and gives us the opportunity to process.

That's beautiful. Yeah, and in a way, just by holding ritual tool, right, is counter. Kind of capitalist exploitation. Mm-hmm. And remembering that like it is a powerful thing. It is a sacred thing, and. The other big piece is like, how can the ritual spaces we're holding be more inclusive? Like, who isn't there?

Who's left out? You know, how are we in relationship with the land, with the, the ancestors? You know, like those are beautiful things to bring into ritual spaces that we're holding that sometimes can feel a little like, ooh, how do we, how do we do this? But I would encourage us to explore that because then it, I do think it really grounds rituals and makes them even more impactful.

Susanna, do you have any idea, you know, I'm thinking about for listeners that might be thinking Ooh. Okay. Um, any ideas for, you know, where to start with that exploration or, yeah. What's helped you on that journey? Hmm. I mean, for me, I, I love exploring ritual spaces in community and learning from others. So my favorite way of doing it is really to like, gather a circle and then see what emerges and learn from one another, you know?

And so in my experience, it's been like, like one of the most powerful ritual spaces. I've been part of, was a community in LA that was kind of meeting every, we'd meet at least once a month and we were dealing with a lot of intense stuff. So like people were getting kicked out of their house for being queer or trans.

Other people, like family members were getting, you know, put into the prison system when they had mental health issues and really needed treatment. Right. So there's a lot going on. We gathered kind of out of need. Because people needed support, but we would get, and we were also like multi-faith, multi-age multiracial.

Right? So very diverse group. And we would always start with ritual space. So we would like 20 or 30 of us, right? Gathered or you know, sometimes 15 gathered. We'd have ritual space. We would have what we called, like the ad hoc committee that would two people or three people that would create the space.

And so it was all different practices. Some folks would bring AAP rituals or you know, like from Africa, from um, different parts of the Americas, pagan rituals. I would bring Vedic practices, yoga, meditation, and then we would eat, cook and eat for one another. And then we would organize, right. Then we would like plan or, you know, and some, some of that planning was like events.

Or fundraisers for bail funds or for legal fees. Some of it was to like help house each other and it was so powerful to learn from one another and to learn about ourselves and to combine like ritual practices, spiritual practices. And then organizing and I wrote about it a little bit in, in Ignite Your Yoga.

Just 'cause it does feel like a really special and and incredible time. Some of the folks that were part of that went on to like Form Black Lives Matter, the movement, right? They're like the founders of it. Others went on to do different, like food justice organizations, different like prison justice organizations.

You know, it's like that foundation of ritual. Emerged into this branch like branching flowering tree of. Helping service oriented like structures and communities. So I share that story to say like, I don't think any action is ever wasted. So start where you are. Even if it's just like you and you, right?

Have a ritual. Think about like have that spiritual space. Then maybe like go do some service, connect in community if you have a small group or invite people in, right? It's okay to start small and I would say go where your heart is called. Go with in terms of the service part, with what you know, what is firing you up, inspiring you, maybe saddening you or angering you like instead of just being with the feelings, like of course feel them.

But then I think anger is so useful in moving us into action. Yes. And not alone, right? Like when we move into action, we form community and we connect. So. Thank you so much. This has been so incredible and we're so grateful to have the opportunity to speak with you and learn from you, and we hope that our listeners check out your books because they're amazing.

Amazing. And what else would you want listeners to know? Where can they find you? Yeah, well online for sure, like on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, just my name and, you know, FairWarning, I'll be talking about yoga and social justice. But I am always showing up with like sweetness and humor and with a little bit of hope to like get us thinking and making the world a better place.

And yoga teacher trainings. I run a 200 hour and 300 hour, so like foundational, um, become a yoga teacher, 200 hour. Deepen your practice. 300 hour and I'm working on a yoga therapy training school, so Wow. Very excited about that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. What are, yeah, what are you feeling, Kelly? Oh, I'm so excited.

I, I forget if they mentioned in our, in our email, but Michelle and I are both licensed therapists and so that just Totally, yes. Oh, wow. I'm also an. YT 200 from back in the day. I don't, yes you are. I don't teach anymore. But I, um, I loved it. It was, it was such a transformational experience. I did it when I was in college.

That's amazing. Yeah, it really is, isn't it? Like going through a 200 hour? I sometimes feel like a good one. I mean, there's some out there that I would say just be, do your due diligence. And I talk about that in the book too, like make sure the space is like. Always returning the authority to you. Not that it's a teacher telling you like, you have to follow me, or you're doing it wrong.

That's not the heart of what yoga is. It can be very confusing and disempowering, so just making sure that you, you really feel supported. For me, the 200 hour I did, it almost felt like group therapy. You know, like I was having so many ahas about my life and patterns and, you know, all of those things. So yeah.

That's really beautiful. I'm, I'm excited that you had that experience. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for today, Susanna, and hopefully mic, I will get to see you in person next week at one of your events. That would be such a treat. That'll be amazing. And for folks who wanna like connect, I have, I do so many like free online things, workshops, classes.

I'm always trying to do like things that can just help move the conversation in Yoga in the West forward and help support us in doing whatever work that it is that we do with these. Spiritual and practical tools. So love to see you anywhere, whether it's in person or online.

All righty. Well, we had a bit of a time crunch with Susanna, but we are so grateful we got to speak with her. Yes, but we're just gonna forge on ahead with the ritual section on our own. Although Susanna has a lot of information out there, so we are gonna pull a lot from her, like socials and her book. And if you want more rituals, there's like.

She has like thousands, so go. He really does. Yeah. So you can follow her at Susanna Baraki. That's S-U-S-A-N-N-A-B-A-R-K-A-T-A-K-I. Which will also, of course link in the show notes. Mm-hmm. But I pulled up one quote to, or a post that she made just to get us started. She talks about this idea of yoga as unity that we brought up with her.

So I'll just read it out. It's a little bit long, but I think it's a good, good perspective to have. Thank you, Michelle. Yeah, and it gives you a little bit of her, uh, sassy fun point of view as well. Oh, we love the sass. So she wrote, but y'all don't appropriate this. Yoga is unity. Don't tell me quote, talking race is divisive.

Quote, you don't see my color or quote. We are all one. Don't deny systemic oppression, racism, white supremacy, anti-blackness, or caste based oppression in the name of yoga. That is appropriation of what yoga is unity means. Let's break this down. One of the many meanings of yoga is unity. But when we ignore systemic oppression, we make unity a false, normative dominance.

Centering idle unity isn't just some abstract ideal. It's needed and possible here and now. Addressing the real material harm himsa and acting from the yogic yama of non harm and uplift. A himsa is how we get to true unity. And that means acknowledging harm and separation, not denying it. Yoga as unity necessitates acknowledgement of our profound interconnection as indigenous aboriginal wisdom keeper, Lila Watson says.

If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time. If you have come because your liberation is bound up with me, then let us work together. Yoga as unity invites us to work together for our own and each other's liberation. So tell me quote, talking race as transparent. I see your color. I honor yoga's ancestral roots, or we are all one.

And I'm here for your liberation alongside mine. Act from your solidarity. Unpack your privilege, validate and disrupt systemic oppression. Speak up about racism. Act against white supremacy and anti-blackness and caste based oppression. Yoga is a path towards true unity. With integration in ourselves, we can create it with others and in our communities.

Mm. Wow. Yeah. So many snaps. Wow. Yeah. Powerful. Thank you for reading that, Michelle. Yeah. I just, I think, I mean, she says it perfectly, so truly. Yeah. Let's not try to recreate that. That was stunning how she worded that, and just, I love all the calls to action in that, of the things we can do. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it's just important. Yeah. Just such a good point that as we think about. What creates unity, that it's not an erasure of difference. Yes, exactly. Yes. So I'm gonna pull also from her book, embrace Yoga's roots for some reflection questions that I think would make. Mm-hmm. Good rituals, things that we can, I dunno, maybe we can talk about how you can incorporate this into your daily life.

Mm-hmm. Perfect. So she has four questions at the end of her book that are questions to see if you are embracing yoga. The first one is, is it causing separation? Is it unsafe, harmful, safe, kind? Hmm. The second, am I embracing roots? Consider yoga's roots as well as your own. Three. Does it create connection to yourself, to others for a group?

Four, does it lead to liberation? Does it make you more mindful, free, peaceful, powerful, or calm? Hmm. Wow. Can you read, just read those one more time? Yeah. I'll just do the short versions of them. Yeah. So is it causing separation? Am I embracing roots? Does it create connection? Does it lead to liberation? Mm.

Wow. Good questions. Really good questions. The first thought that comes up for me is actually group therapy, which is really interesting 'cause I've been recognizing how much I miss it. Mm-hmm. I mean, you know Michelle, how many groups I was running? I was running like four or five groups at one point.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. In a semester. And I really. Miss that group energy. I think maybe because I'm not a yoga teacher, I'm not a meditation teacher, so I'm not holding groups, group classes, if you will, but I miss group therapy for, I think those reasons, like it's such a way for people to connect with each other, to be authentic, to honor roots, right?

Honor their individual roots, honor their stories. Yeah. So that's what came up for me when you were reading those. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about with yoga practice. Yeah. How to incorporate these, and I think it could be good, you know, going into a yoga class, whether mm-hmm a, or not necessarily a cl a class, but a yoga practice, whether it's on your own or in a studio, to spend a few minutes at the beginning, if you're going to a yoga studio, there's always that little period of time where people are coming in and settling down.

And I think that would be a good time to check in with those questions and just kind of see what comes up. I think even just, I forget what it's called, but kind of that intention setting practice where you don't even have to have an answer to the questions, but just asking them and just sitting with it.

I think is really powerful. Mm. I love that idea, Michelle. And it actually reminds me I was so, I was recently at a yoga class, my favorite of my favorite class, restorative. And there was a gentleman there who had a service dog, and of course you know me. I was rolling in like a minute to go. And in that moment, like this is a great example, like in that moment I could have just plop my mat down, been like, this is my spot.

I'm claiming this spot from class, and instead I said Hi. Like, it's so nice to meet you. I haven't met you before. Would it be okay if I sat next to you and your dog and. He was like, oh my gosh, of course. And then after class, Michelle, it was such a beautiful exchange between this person we talked and he shared about his terminal illness and wow, it was, I think in that moment it would've gone so differently if I wouldn't have said anything and if I would've just like taken up that space and not.

Paid attention to write my surroundings and being connected to the other, um, yoga students. Yeah, that is such a good example, I think, for people to hear because I think it is so easy going into a class like yoga. I think it's something, I actually think about a lot of yoga, I think. Could be such a connecting point.

Yes. But I don't know. I've never actually made a friend in a yoga class just going, but I think because you're just practicing kind of silently throughout it, but just that's such a good example of just one little point of connection led to bigger. It's so little. Yeah. Like the tiniest just asking for permission to like share space with this person and their animal.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then that led to. A bigger conversation and just those little. Things that start to create bigger change, I think are so important. Mm-hmm. It's so true. And I noticed yoga teachers, some of them, right, they're playing their music. They might not be interacting, but the yoga teachers that make a point to welcome each person.

Mm-hmm. The class feels different. People linger after more. They might talk to the teacher after class. Like it changes the energy of the room. Yeah. Um, and I, I've been kind of mulling over this idea now that I'm putting on the podcast. We'll see. But just I've thought about. What would it be like to do a, just a regular yoga class, but that involves a com, a component of group processing.

Oh, I love that mic. Michelle, you need to start that please. And then I can attend. Okay. Yes, I'll, I'll look around for, but just like, I think even just the thought of how many yoga classes are almost a hundred percent. Yoga Asana or the posture practice. Mm-hmm. And if they're not that, it might be a little bit of mindfulness.

Yes. But there's all these other components of yoga that are not even are maybe if they're even addressed at all. It's like just scratching the surface. Just kind of a, you know, here, think about this, versus the opportunity to. Talk and share about it and build community around that shared belief. Hmm. And I think people are hungry for this, especially coming after COVID.

And people are now, right? They're back in yoga studios. They're back in gyms. Mm-hmm. And yet people still, there's this like social hesitancy. I still sense when I'm in these group spaces, Michelle. That would be brilliant. Yeah. For the, the stages of change. People out there. I've been, I've been in sort of a preparation mode because I actually, I've been thinking about getting back into teaching for a few months now and I, wow, I did not know this Michelle.

Well, you know, with stages of change, pre-contemplation and contemplation, then contemplation, and I actually, a few months ago. Renewed my RYT 200 for the first time. Wow. In a long time. I'm. Getting there. Maybe this will, this dream will become a reality as I speak it into existence. Well, and I hope you can keep podcast listeners updated on this journey.

'cause I think it's so relatable, right? Mm-hmm. We have these seeds of an idea. Mm-hmm. And, but we do often keep them to ourselves and they stay really private and then maybe they write, they just kind of flitter off and we don't do anything with it or, so yeah, keep us posted. Okay. Will do. Yeah. Thank you for affirming my, um, preparation phase of change and encouraging me to continue with this.

Oh, absolutely. Michelle, is there, can I ask what's drawing you to wanna teach classes again and where? Yeah, like whether it was the talk with Susanna or, you know, revisiting her books, just. Where's the inspiration coming from? I think partly having a little bit more spaciousness in my life. I think even just doing this podcasting journey has been an example of having more spaciousness.

This is gonna go a. Really far back. But Uhhuh, I was, I was just thinking about this the other day, so I'll just tell this story really quick here. Aww. Please do. Unrelated, kind of unrelated to yoga, but a long time ago I did this array of animal wisdom cards. Mm. And. The idea behind it is like instructions in this book that you lay out these whatever, nine cards and you only do it once, which I don't even know if I have a record of this, so I already like, I need a visual.

I don't remember. I know, but you know when you change phones and you leave these pictures. I know. And so I'll have to go back and see if I can find it, but one, one of the ones that I remember was there was. A spider for my inner child and the spider represented creativity like building these webs. And I drew this several years ago when kind of maybe earlier on in the therapy journey.

Mm-hmm. And I remember having such a feeling of sadness of. I am not connected to my creativity and this sense of like, I, I will never be like, I cannot achieve this dream for myself. Like, how am I gonna connect to this part of myself? I just felt so disconnected from it, and now I feel like I'm so connected to it for the first time in a very long time, and the other day I was feeling kind of down and I was sitting outside.

And I looked over and there was a spider right next to me, and it was like, I was outside and it was spread. The, the web was like spread across these, um, my juniper bushes. Wow. So it, and I was watching it and it was. Putting away the web. Mm. And so it was like, um, as it was walking, it was like pulling the web back and like unbuilding it basically, and went off into the trees.

Yeah. It was such a moment for me to think about just, yeah. How, first of all, how incredible spiders are. Just how incredible they are to build these intricate webs and then be able to pull them back and deconstruct them and reconstruct them. Yeah. Yeah. Spiders hold a lot of medicine. And Michelle, I'm so glad you shared that story.

I think that's gonna really apply to a lot of people where it almost feels like, I don't know if I'm gonna reach this right anytime soon or in this lifetime. And I love that there's these signs that are showing you. Keep going. Yeah, and it's interesting 'cause I, I completely forgot about it. Like, looking back, I was like, I remember feeling that way, but I, I don't even connect to the feeling at all.

I just, I know that I felt that way. Mm. You know? Mm-hmm. So anyways, long story short, I feel like back connected to the spider energy of like the ability to create and also that, you know, whatever you create, you can always clean up and pull back when it doesn't serve you anymore. Totally. Yes. Yeah. You can always, yeah.

Weave a different web. Mm-hmm. So anyways, that was a detour a little bit, but we love our detours, so like we went, we got so lucky. We got to go see Susanna talk about her new book. Ignite Your Yoga. Yes, at Boulder Bookstore. It was amazing. Yes. So definitely go get the book. But yeah, I think one thing that she kind of talked about was just wherever you're at, finding.

A way that you can integrate yoga into the community, like find the needs of your community, find what's already. Working well and integrate into that. Yes. And it gave me a lot, I dunno how you felt, Michelle, but it was really motivating to me and honestly from a place of gratitude that we've been able to interview some people from our community.

Mm-hmm. To write, like uplift the work they're doing. And it just gets me excited to learn more and more about what people are offering. In Fort Collins, Northern Colorado, I was so struck when she said she's made. What was it like five to 600 partnerships and I was like, that is so badass. Yeah. So I think that, yeah, that's another maybe good food for thought for ritual is whether, I mean, whether it's yoga or whatever, you feel passionate about finding that space in your community Yes.

That you can build that and creating partnerships with people. Hmm. And I know she, she talked a lot about, because somebody asked a question. I mean, Colorado is a fairly white mm-hmm. Dominant community in general. Obviously there's different. Pockets of diversity, but mm-hmm. There was a woman there who was white presenting.

She did not specify her race. Mm-hmm. But she was asking about how to create more inclusive spaces as a, or did she say she was a white? She was a yoga. She owned a yoga studio in Boulder. Yes. Yeah. And I'm glad she asked this question because I was thinking about yoga teachers during the conversation, but I was like, oh my gosh.

Yeah. These yoga owners, the practice owners. Yeah, like right when we think about like kind of top down change. Mm-hmm. I'm glad she asked the question. Yeah. Susanna's response, if I remember correctly, was basically that was one of those things of you can pull in other people Yes. And collaborate with other people that hold different identities to create more inclusive spaces, whether it's race or gender or ability or.

Whatever identities you're, I mean, hopefully all, but whichever ones you're wanting to focus on, maybe that community really needs a safe space for, you know, certain identities. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was such powerful words of wisdom. I'm like, I feel like so many yoga studios need to hear mm-hmm. That message.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hopefully some good food for thought. Yes. Hopefully you're feeling energized, ready to ignite your yoga. Ooh, tap into your spider wisdom. Mm mm-hmm. Okay. Kelly and I will be continuing the conversation. Mm-hmm. Yes, we will. This extended conversation will be available on our Patreon in September.

Yeah, very soon. Oh, so soon. We hope to see, yeah. Many of you there. Yeah. All right. Goodbye. Alright, bye everyone. Alright. Ritual fam, whether you practice yoga on the regular or are interested in it or have been wary to try for various reasons. We hope that you are feeling inspired by Susanna to learn a little bit more about it.

And if yoga isn't your thing, maybe you'll be interested in diving into the roots of whatever your thing is, and we would love to hear from you about that. If this inspires you to deepen your yoga practice, if you have a different interest that you are digging deeper into. If you have examples of teachers that are doing a great job of honoring yoga's roots.

Let us know. Send us a message. We'd love to hear from you. And exciting announcement. If you have been following the podcast, then you probably already know in two weeks we will not be dropping a regular episode. Instead, we are launching our Patreon. So where you're listening now. There'll be a teaser episode, and Kelly and I will be explaining a little bit about the inspiration and motivation behind starting the Patreon.

And then on the Patreon you will be able to download all of the bonus episodes that we are recording. So it'll be the regular episode. You can revisit that if you want, and then at the end there'll be bonus content and we're gonna be. Getting back together with some of our guests. Sometimes Kelly and I will be chatting just the two of us.

It's just gonna be really fun. So the month of September, we are going to devote to the Patreon, um, getting the community, starting to build that up and giving you time to listen to all the delicious bonus content. And then we will be back with our regular episodes in October and. For people that are on the Patreon, there will continue to be the regular episode with bonus content over there.

So we cannot wait to hang with you on the Patreon and wherever you are, whatever you're doing, have a magical time. Goodbye

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