Alright, ritual fam. Hey. Hey. Oh, hey. We are very excited to have Jerry Peterson on today to talk about military culture and mental health within military culture. He is a retired master sergeant from the Air Force, and now he is an LPCC, which is licensed Practical Counselor candidate. So he has his master's degree and he is NCE certified and.

Working on his PhD, so he has a lot to offer us. Welcome Jerry. Yeah, thank you. Yes, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome. It's great to be in your company and be a part of this, so thank you so much. Aw, welcome. Of course. Yeah. Alright, so. We kind of introduced you a little bit, but anything that you would want us to know about you?

Like who, who you are? Wow, that's a, uh, that's a long question. Um, yes or a long answer rather. So, uh, lemme know if I go over on this, but, uh, I'm originally from Kentucky. I was raised, uh, my dad was a minister, so in a coal miner. So I was raised in that kind of environment. After high school, I went to work underground coal mining.

Did that for several years. Uh, I was able to step away from it. For a short period of where I was a, uh, HVAC technician, did that for a little bit and then, uh. Life changes and I had to go back to coal mining. And then again, life changed again and ended up moving down to the western part of the state and started working in a factory.

And then next thing I know, in 2000, I joined the military. Throughout the time I was in the military, I had an opportunity to do a lot of fun things, stressful things. Uh, did three different careers in military and then a special duty. And then now here at later part of my life, I'm transitioning into the, uh, counseling world.

Yeah. Yeah. What a journey. Yeah. I didn't know that you worked in the coal mines. Yes. Uh, yeah, I did a few years underground coal mining. Yeah, it was, it was different. It was definitely the worst job I ever did in my life. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard work. Oh, yeah. The most physically demanding I've ever done.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, we all. You know, have those life experiences and they, you know, it taught me while I was working on the ground, it taught me the value of hard work. It taught me the value of looking out for each other. Mm-hmm. I was underground. You never know what the roof's gonna fall or things like that.

So you have to be aware of your surroundings. Mm-hmm. Uh, be ready to help your buddy out, get the job done, no matter how dirty it is. Yeah. So interesting. Especially because that came before your military career. Yes. I was 18 years old underground. Yeah. Not knowing what I was doing. Mm-hmm. So, hmm. Yeah, it was, uh, didn't pay much, uh, in Appalachia, Kentucky.

It's up there in coal mining. At that time, back in the early nineties, it didn't really pay much unless you were on like, with a huge firm, but mm-hmm. There's so many small mines during that time, you could easily get job it just for like six bucks an hour. Yeah. So. Mm. And as we, you know, kind of fast forward to today.

Mm-hmm. Jerry, what season of life would you say you're in now? Uh, I would say I'm in my third act, if you will. Mm. Oh, tell us more. So, each phase of my life, I feel like I've had to take on a different identity. Mm. First phase, I'm straight outta high school full of crazy dreams, wanting to, you know, trying to.

Deal with a, that kind of life. And then something wanted change and then I took on this whole new persona of the military, the culture embedded in me, took on a lifestyle, the core values, things like that. Now I'm much older. I've kind of transitioned out of it, but I'm having to relearn who I am. I'm having to grow again.

I'm having to take this growth mindset and go from this highly structured authoritarian environment mm-hmm. To an environment where I. Actually people are very kind and very forgiving and very understanding and you know, it's that they're willing to give you a chance and listen to you and empathize with you.

And as part of the job, in turn, I have to relate that to the patients that I fortunate enough to work with and be able to provide them compassion versus this strict, Hey, I need you to go do this now and this is how you're gonna do it. So it's, it's taken a lot of learning and I've been fortunate, love enough along this path to have individuals like Michelle, who has provided mentorship to me.

I've had an opportunity to work with her and it's been fantastic. I've learned so much from her, from individuals like, uh, Justin Schafer and so many others along the path. And just this short time I've been on this. Third act that's really hit me grow tremendously. I think that's also something that'll be interesting to dive into more too, how military culture is a culture that you can opt into and then opt out of in a cer to a certain degree.

And so it's just kind of the differences there. Um, but we are curious if you have any sort of, any sort of memory that comes to mind that stands out to you. As you have transitioned out of the military and into life as a therapist? Oh, wow. A lot of fantastic memories. I guess one of the ones that stands out the most was the first time I had an opportunity to present at a conference in Georgia.

I had such huge imposter syndrome, but, uh, a mentor, uh, she was there. She co-presented with me, uh, Melinda Page is her name, Dr. Melinda Page, and it was amazing. She just made me feel so comfortable and she gave me so much reassurance. And then when I presented. Even the audience full of licensed therapists.

Mm-hmm. Way, I mean, so much more advanced within knowledge within the profession than I was. They provided fantastic feedback. They were open and receptive to the topic I was presenting on. They asked great questions and. Actually listened to what I had to say and felt like they took something out of which was made it feel like it was worth doing what I was doing.

What was the presentation about? It was about military suicide in during the age of COVID. There's so many things that happened during COVID that changed people, and if you know it, milit or suicide rates increased already during that period, and a lot of it had to do with, we were isolating more. Mm, we didn't have chances to connect connecting with each other.

Uh, that's a huge coping skill that we have, that a lot of people, when, when they can connect with somebody else on a human level, that can help alleviate a lot of the depression, a lot of the suicidal thoughts and things like that. But when you isolate, when you're just stuck looking at each other through a camera, mm-hmm.

I mean, how do you, how do you deal with that? So, uh, a lot of it was focused in on that, focused in on a lot of the, um, differences between why impacts a lot of military service members facing suicidal ideations versus civilian. Yeah. I wonder if part of it is just how. Community based. I, I feel that, and again, I'm an office here, so you can correct me, but it seems that military culture is very based on the community aspect of things.

So then when you're co, when people were completely stripped of that through COVID, that probably had a really huge impact. Oh, absolutely. I had a, one of my troops who dealt with, uh, suicidal ideations because. They did not have the opportunity to go play basketball with their friends, which was one of their primary coping skills.

And because of that, they were just ruminating on what they called their demons, and it was just came overwhelming where they reached out to somebody and told 'em that they were having those thoughts, which got back to me and I was able to go help them. But yeah, that's such a powerful illustration. Yes.

Mm-hmm. And then the other question that we ask everyone is about their relationship to ritual, which I think it will also be interesting to hear from your perspective. 'cause I feel like the rituals and military life like you kind of described, are very authoritarian and very strict. Yes. Well, and the background, you said your dad was a minister?

Correct. Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was, uh, exposed to rituals at since. I can remember within church, uh, there's a lot of spiritual rituals that they engage in and things like that. Of course, as time changes, you know, we all develop our own viewpoints mm-hmm. And things like that. But still, I was exposed to various religious rituals at an early age and joining military, there was so many rituals changing enough command ceremonies, retirement ceremonies.

You had funeral. Honors when somebody would die, you would participate in honor guard and do those kind of ceremonies. There so many different ones that we did. Uh, then there was just the unofficial rituals. I. Uh, for example, there every march is mustache march in Air Force. In honor to this general, who was named Robin Os.

He fought during Vietnam. He later on become the, uh, commandant for the Air Force Academy here in Colorado. Mm-hmm. Oh, anyways, so during Vietnam, I guess there's some issues going on between him and his leadership and he didn't want to. Hurt his troops. So he stood up for him and he divide kind of his leadership by growing this mustache that was outer eggs.

So, uh, ever since then, I guess they developed this kind of yearly ritual. In March, you grow a mustache. Oh, that's funny. So is that, do you feel like now as a civilian, or are you considered a civilian? Yes. Okay. Now, as a civilian mm-hmm. Do you carry through some of these rituals or do you. Do you want to like not ever see a ritual again or what, what is the, what is your relationship now?

Uh, so now my relationship, I, I don't necessarily do the, uh, rituals anymore that was associated with military. I'll still respect and honor the flag, things like that. That's kind of instilled in me. There's more. Patriotism due to that, uh, regardless of what else is going on in the world now, the, I think about our forefathers who have fought and died for our country and those things, uh, the greats of World War I, world War ii, those guys, right?

Mm-hmm. They made a sacrifice. So to me, honoring the flag honors those guys. But, uh, now more my rituals rely around. Just taking on like a growth mindset daily asking, who am I now? How am I developing my identity? Where do I go from here? What can I do next? How can I become better in my profession? How can I change somebody's life today?

How can I help somebody, even if it's just maybe make 'em smile for a minute, so. Oh wow. Those are beautiful grounding questions. I'm so inspired. Yeah, that's beautiful.

Jerry, we are just so excited to dive into some of these questions with you. You have such a wealth of experience and my goodness, your heart is just yeah, such, such a pure golden heart. So our first question for you is, what do you wish people knew about the military? What misunderstandings do people often have?

I. Wow. That's a great question. Uh, I would say for me personally, one of the biggest misunderstandings is that I'm the hero of the situation. I don't see it as that. I'm grateful for the ones who come up and say, thank you for your service stuff. I honor that. I respect that, and I understand where it comes from.

It comes from a good place, no doubt about that. But to me, I see that I'm just doing my job when I was serving. Mm-hmm. I knew what I was getting into when I signed my name on the line. I knew that if I had to give my life, that was part of it, but at the end of the day, I'm still doing my job. Mm-hmm. Just like the two of you.

You show up every day, you do your job. Now I show up every day. At the hospital, I'm doing my job. I don't think about it, but what we don't recognize is that the real heroes, the whole situation are the ones that are forgotten about. The spouses who are staying at home. The children who are left without their parents showing up for their birthday, for Christmas, for their dance recital, too often they get forgotten about.

And if you think about it, when I would deploy and the washing machine would break, or the car would break. Who's there to help 'em get it fixed? Who's there there to be their partner to help raise a child, a young child who's there for the child to come up to and hug when they need it, or to read 'em a nighttime story.

And then if you wanna take it a step further, a lot of, uh, military personnel, they may marry somebody born in a foreign country. Mm-hmm. And then they take 'em back to the states. And then on top of that, you have that foreign born military spouse who is in America, not only trying to adjust to the acculturation of American lifestyle, but they're also trying to adjust to the acculturation of military lifestyle.

And on top of that English. Being their second language if they speak English at all, which could be challenging. 'cause English is a tough language to learn, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Now they're having to deal with all these other added stressors, and then who do they go to to get help? What mental health provider can they reach out to that's gonna understand not only their cultural challenges, but everything else that goes along with it.

So they carry all this weight. And this burden as well as the children. And to me, those are the true heroes. And I think that's one of the biggest misunderstandings, is not recognizing where their real heroes are. Now I have to give credit to where I know historically we've had a lot of, you think about a lot of the Vietnam vets when they came back in the early seventies, late sixties, you know, a lot of 'em went through a lot of, during our, our American culture at the time was not too favorably owned military.

Uh, after nine 11, that changed a lot for a lot of people. People became more patriotic and things like that. I understand all that, but still we forget about the unsung heroes of the whole situation. Very beautiful perspective, I think. And what do you feel like would be something else that people could say, you know, if they wanted to say something?

Uh, I think what would surprise a lot of military spouses, if as if, once they found out. They, the who the service member was and recognized their spouse. Tell the spouse, thank you. Mm. Wow. Often the spouses or the children don't get thanks or the recognition that they need. What could they say? For me? Uh, honestly, they don't have to say anything at all.

'cause I knew what I was doing. I voluntarily went and served my country. I was willing to give my life on the line for whatever a country asked of me. For the people that live in it. That's what we do. That's what our country, our men and women. Throughout history have done for our country. Yeah. So to me it's, it was a job.

It was something I was voluntarily signed to do. So I don't need any kinda special recognition. I don't need anything out of that. Just knowing I served and knowing the idea why I did. Mm, I'm so glad you're bringing up this perspective, especially for listeners that yeah, maybe they don't have many people in their life that were in the military are in the military.

So, thank you Jerry. That's, yeah, I'm really gonna remember that. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you remember this, Kelly from the, um, the book Soil by Camille Dungy, she's a Fort Collins author. Mm-hmm. Professor at c Yeah. Yes. And she talks about, in her book, it's a slightly different perspective, but about it's.

It's was a male nature writer. I don't know if it was John Muir, I don't wanna slander his name, but she talks about a male nature writer who's like always like off on all these adventures and stuff and just like completely disregards his wife at home, like taking care of everything. Right. Do you remember this?

Yeah, she was. It is such a good book. 'cause she talks about the gender piece. Of Yes. When he went off and how different it is for female nature writers. I know we're really going off a here buddy, but it's a great point of thinking about who was left at home when all those things were going on. Are there support groups for spouses children, or is there a community for them?

Yes, there is the, the military tries to have like key spouse groups and things like that. But one of the things I noticed when I was doing my special duty as a first sergeant, a lot of those key spouses, they're very politically, I guess, charged, if you will. There's a lot of, you see a lot of cattiness going on, you.

Mm-hmm. And this is, when I say key spouse group, this includes both male, uh, male and female spouses, right? Mm-hmm. They are all available to participate, but you see a lot of. Oh my husband's this rink and your husband's that. R and a lot of, oh, interesting. Yes. So a lot of that comes into play and it just very rarely do you find a key spouse group that was very encouraging, very suitable, that would allow for what was truly intended to, 'cause what I noticed was that a lot of 'em, they would start off, try to get a few members in, and then they would just.

Participate, nothing would. Wow. That's such a missed opportunity. Yes. Wow. And then there's other resources like the Family Resource Center that is available to 'em overseas. They do a great job of supporting the spouses and American spouse can go over there and they can get free language classes and get taught how to drive in that foreign country and things like that.

Conversely, they don't have a lot of those same things stateside, which allows a, if you will, a systemic. Form of discrimination for foreign born spouses. A foreign I born spouse is not gonna get a chance to learn English for free, or they're not going to get a chance to learn how to drive on our American highways for free.

They would have to take, go off base behind the classes, learn it that way. Uh, you have ESL courses, things like that. Right. So there is some inherent, you know, and I can go on and on about other forms of mm-hmm. Like that, uh, within the military. Sounds like you're passionate about this area. Oh, absolutely.

Uh, it's actually the focus of my dissertation. So, wow. Alright, well let us know. In 2027, yes. 2027. Yes. Well like the dissertation. And then there's also other resources. We have, uh, military family life counselors on base, which are civilian therapists that go to work on base. Uh, they provide therapy of up to eight sessions, or it doesn't matter who it is, service member or.

Family member, whoever, uh, again, a great resource, but eight sessions per issue, right? So if they're struggling with challenges with their spouse's ptsd d mm-hmm. Which, you know, we know that there can be a lot of challenges when their spouse comes back from deployment and dealing with PTSD, dealing with getting that done and handled in eight sessions could be challenging.

Yeah. That's such a small amount of sessions. Yes. Mm-hmm. That's nothing, uh, exactly. That's like two months if you meet with someone weekly. Right. Wow. And they're dealing with this vicarious trauma, right. Their spouse's P ts d and then the child has to witness it. And then there's of course challenges that, and the list goes on and on, but yeah.

Mm. I'd love to hear too, and I know Michelle and I talked about this, Jerry, for you. Like were those session, I don't even know if you attended those sessions. Mm-hmm. But the reason why you chose to be a therapist for your third act. So the reason why I chose to be a therapist for my third act was. Well, I've always had an inherent interest in psychology and human behavior.

I used to enjoy just people watching. Oh, same love people watching. That's why I love New York City. I'm like, oh, I can just sit on a bench and just watch it, watch all day. And that was the greatest thing. Trying to understand their motives, trying to understand why they're. Interacting, the way they're interacting with each other, those things like that.

And that really drew me an interest in psychology, which I allowed to pursue, allowed me to pursue my bachelor's in. But the biggest thing that I think changed my life and really drew me towards counseling was when I became a First Sergeant. As a First Sergeant. It again, for the Air Force, it's a special duty for other ranks.

It's a actual job position. So there was this one encounter I had in Afghanistan where I really had to work with this one troop and provide him some really bad information. And then on top of that, uh, we started getting attacked and we, you know, he was just so distraught with the information I had to break to him, took me a minute, getting him to the bunker and we just be able to process that with him.

And we, even after the all clear, we spent time in that bunker just, and him talking about this and processing that and that feeling afterwards, even though I was drained, I was so drained afterwards, but it was just. Feeling like I was able to change something and help him in a moment just be present with another human being through their worst moment.

To me, that made me wanted to explore and see what I can do in this profession after I retired. So I started my master's soon after that in mental health counseling and was able to finish it up about the time I retired. I love how you just said that being present with someone in their worst moment, like I feel like that so eloquently describes our experience for all of us as therapists.

Like to be present with someone. Yes. To not, right. Mm-hmm. Walk away in that moment just to really see someone. Exactly. Isn't it like the greatest thing? It is. It is. Uh, yeah. 'cause so often people don't have that in their lives. They don't have somebody that can mm-hmm. Just be with them nonjudgmentally and let 'em know that, hey, you matter.

You truly matter, and I want to show you that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's powerful and I think, you know, people ask us a lot of like, isn't it so hard to sit with people and it, and it can be, but it's also really a gift too, to get to be with people. Yes. Those moments. Absolutely. So true, Michelle. Yeah, and I think you make a great point.

It can be hard. Emotions are tough. Mm-hmm. They are the toughest thing we deal with as humans. Everything from anger to frustration to sadness. Because they're uncomfortable at times. They can often elicit various behaviors, if we will, if we allow 'em. So being able to do that, it, it is hard and is uncomfortable.

Yeah. But if you can do that with somebody and share that moment with them and actually express that empathy, let 'em know that you care, you can change their life. Hmm. Okay. Along these lines of just the, you know, difficulties of transitioning into, you know, military life and out of it and all that, all that kind of stuff.

Mm-hmm. Have you seen any examples of how people have been successful in making that transition, whether it's into military life or out of military life? Oh yeah. I. I've seen, especially transitioning in military life because basic training, it's our first exposure to, to the transition. It's where we begin that whole acculturation process.

And in fact, basic training is a place where you actually have to earn. Your way into that culture. Not every other culture you really have to earn your way into, but this one, you have to earn your way into it. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of people that don't make that, but there's also a lot of people that do earning our way into the culture and still being able to maintain their military identity.

And the biggest thing I've seen with that is being able to balance their military identity with their personal identity, who they were before the, so being able to maintain my identity before who I was. As a Kentuckian, as somebody who grew up in Appalachia and things like that, with who I am as a military service member, over time I've become more military than I am Kentuckian.

But still, that initial transition was, it can be challenging. Try to figure out what that balance is and then transitioning out. I. The military has a lot of things available to us to help facilitate the transition, which I think that was really helpful for me. I was able to engage in this program called Skill Grid, where I could do my internship for up to six months prior to my actual retirement.

Oh, that's wonderful. Oh, yeah. It was called. Skill Bridge. Skill Bridge. Okay. Yes. Yeah. We'll have to link that resource. Yeah, absolutely. And with that, uh, skill Bridge program, I was still getting my military pay for the last six months. Oh, that's great. But I was able to come here, do my internship, and get my internship hours associated with my college degree and like that, so that made the transition a lot easier.

Uh, is it tough to transition out of it? Yes, it can be. 'cause you're changing your mindset. You're having to change the way you think, the way you talk, the acronyms you use, the way you speak to others, everything like that. I. So it, it is tough. I don't know of any, uh, there's cases where it may be unsuccessful, which can lead to types of depression, which can eventually lead to suicide, which I think you guys know that since nine 11 there's been more people, more veterans that have suicide than in combat.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard that. Yeah. Yeah. That's staggering. Mm-hmm. I didn't realize it was specifically. Since nine 11. Yes. And I don't know about the stats before that, but if you do the research, you can see that since nine 11 there's been more people, there's been only like 7,000 people die in combat since nine 11 versus, I can't remember the number off the top of my head.

But, uh, or veteran suicide. When we talk about rituals, we'll talk more about how people can feel more supported in that transition out, but. You talked about kind of becoming more military in your culture. Mm-hmm. And do you have any memory that stands out to you that really just highlights the best parts of military culture for you?

Uh, the best parts of military culture was the camaraderie. Camaraderie that you experienced in each of my professions. I had a chance to experience some. Great camaraderie with all my friends as a weapons loader. When I loaded bombs missiles on F sixteens, we worked in teams of three. So you had your supervisor and you had one other person you worked with.

You came really close, you hung out together. If you went, uh, TDY, which is temporary duty for like training exercises, things like that, you hung out together, then you worked together, you hung out together, you ate together, you did everything together. And you became really close and you get to know each other on a very personal level.

I still great friends, a lot of them to this day. And then when I went into graphic design in the Air Force, I had a chance to get to know a few people and became really good friends with them and was able to work with them. Uh, they taught me a lot about the graphic designing, photoshops, things like that.

And then when I moved into, uh, becoming a flight engineer, uh, again, we would deploy, we'd be on cruise and we would always, uh. Same routine, hang out together. We work together day in and day out, especially on our deployments. So, and we became very close that way. And again, I'm still friends with a lot of those people as well.

Mm. Yeah. That's so much connection. Oh, absolutely. Community. Mm-hmm. Does that feel different, Jerry? Like looking back at that time period. Mm-hmm. Does it feel different than, let's say like now when you work in a hospital setting in that team, like does the leadership, does the team, does it feel different military versus civilian to you?

Oh, absolutely. But uh, the camaraderie is still there. Okay. The team I work with now is probably one of the best teams I've worked with in. A long time. Uh, I really enjoy everybody I work with. They're, they are fantastic people. I feel so blessed and so fortunate to get to work with each and every one of them.

And I feel like I'm very good friends with each and every one of them. Uh, granted we might not ever deploy together or have that kind of lifestyle where we're going and be eating together in like that experienced in the military, but nonetheless, we're spending 10 hours a day together. Mm-hmm. I feel so comfortable to come up and if there's something I don't know or process I don't understand, or maybe a referral maybe I'm unsure about.

I feel so comfortable coming up to asking any of them for assistance, and I know they will help me without judgment and help me see the thing from beginning to end if I need it. And as far as leadership goes, I think I have a fantastic, uh, supervisor. She's awesome. She. Provides me great feedback. Lets me know where I need to correct.

In the military, when we talk about leadership, that's a broad topic. You see so many people who are in leadership roles that are not true leaders. Mm uh, but yet you do see a handful of leaders, true leaders, and there's a couple of them. Those that really stand out, stand out in my mind as well. Oh gosh. I would love to read like chapter.

I don't know if you ever will write on that, but I would love to read chapters of, I'm always so intrigued by the people who we look up to because of leadership and mentorship. Oh, absolutely. You know, one of the ones I looked up to the most is, uh, Colonel Henry Rogers. He was my, uh, commander when I went out to Afghanistan.

He greeted me at the terminal when I arrived on base. Oh. And he provided me this little coffee mug with my call sign on it. And, uh, the airplane I flew on and my little wings and everything that was all on it personalized. Oh, that makes me tear up thinking about that. Yeah. And then, uh, he always, he would also, I observed him a lot.

And I observed that he would often provide mentorship to a lot of the younger lieutenants on his own accord. Mm-hmm. He would have these mentorship sessions on leadership on how to be a leader. He invited the senior NCOs as well to hire enlisted people. And he always stressed to me. He's like, the first day and the last day of a person's experience with you is what they're gonna remember.

Mm. And it's how you make them feel. So you show, if you show up and show 'em that they matter. And that you're grateful that they're a part of your team, they're gonna work hard for you. And then on the last day you show 'em like, Hey, I appreciate everything you've done. I know it was tough. I know at times I could've been a little tough, but you stuck by me and I appreciate that.

And you make them feel great as they leave. You're always gonna remember that, and that's exactly why you did. And on top of that thing that impressed me the most about him, he stuck to his values no matter what. One things that I noticed about him, he was, he was Christian, he held very strong to his Christian values.

Mm-hmm. So we would have movie night as a unit, like once a week, and the movie, random people would pick out the movie or whatever. And if a movie had some, maybe. Inappropriate content that he didn't agree with or that didn't align with his values, he wouldn't make us shut it off. He would just excuse himself.

Mm-hmm. He wasn't trying to, he didn't try to enforce his beliefs on us or anything like that, but he would just simply excuse himself and sticking to his values. I. You gotta respect that. Yeah. That's such a good example. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. But yeah, he was definitely a great, great leader.

Okay. We're gonna get into some rituals. So you have talked about mental health and how that shows up in the military and then. As a civilian, you know, leaving the military and also the families and all that stuff. Right. So any, any advice that you have for people supporting veterans, you know, whether they're like spouses, children.

Neighbors, like we all have people in our lives, right. That are veterans or active duty. Mm-hmm. Um, how can we support the military? Oh, absolutely. Uh, great question. I think one of the biggest things is don't just assume the military is their full identity. Hmm. Because what are we, what is our identity?

Yeah. Right now, my part of my identity is being a therapist. But also part of it is being a vet. Also, part of my identity is being a husband, being a dad, being a son, a brother. So we have multiple aspects to our identity. So just not just focusing on the fact that they're military as their whole identity, I think would be a fallacy.

Hmm. Would. Because what could be impacting 'em might not be have anything to do with the military or with anything they're dealing with. That's a great point. But also with military personnel especially, man. 'cause there's, well, so, you know, we know it's not to just stereotype or anything like that, but military is mostly made up of the male population.

And with men, it's often hard for men in themselves to go get mental health. There's a lot of challenges with. The man seeking mental health because of stigmas and everything like that. Uh, ma issues with masculinity. Mm-hmm. And so forth, if we think about that. But now we compound that with military sense of pride, sense of duty, sense of, I have to be tough, that seeds.

Your standard masculinity challenges. So now they're dealing with that. And then on top of that impacts to their careers. Are they, if they're still active duty, how is this getting mental health gonna impact their career? If they get diagnosis, they could get stood down from their job, which could affect their pay, which could affect so many different things.

Again, balancing that line, right? And overcome that stigma that's going to get them to be able to open up. But, uh, I think the biggest thing as, uh, mental health providers we can do is just let 'em know that, hey, first of all, you're safe and it's okay. If you need to cry, it's okay. I might even cry with you.

It's okay to feel what you feel if it has to do with military. If you wanna talk about military, let's talk about it. I don't know anything about it. What branch was you in? Oh, Marines, right? What did you do? Oh, I. Wow, okay. What, what does that mean? You told me the acronym of it, but what job is that? And sometimes they would tell you and let 'em know that, hey, it's okay to share what you can share here because I can train to deal with it.

If you, some of 'em might not wanna share some of the horror stories, uh, that could be triggering their PTSD. I let 'em know that when you're ready and you're comfortable, it's okay to share it with me because I'm here and I'm trained and I can handle this unlike maybe your spouse or your child, or.

Whoever else, and let's work together. Let me just simply be on your team, let you know that, hey, you're mad. You matter, and you're, I know that you're not just this veteran. I know you're not just this active duty person. I know you're so much more than that, and we can get down to the core though. If there's other traumas in your life, let's talk about that.

What did you go through as a child? Did you experience, you know, as men who experienced, uh, sexual trauma as a childhood? It's hard for them to open up about it. Again, it goes back to the masculinity challenges that our society imposes on it. So that's, it's okay. You don't have to live it with that.

There's no judgment here. I. And just include that, I guess, Rogerian aspect. If we think, you know Carl Rogers, right? Mm-hmm. That unconditional positive regard, that empathy. Let 'em know that, hey, you're a person and you matter. You don't have to be that tough soldier. You don't have to be that tough airman.

You don't have to be that person with me. You can just be Jerry. You can just be who you are. Mm-hmm. And I think too, for mental health professionals to think about, you know, that trauma can show up in different ways. Mm-hmm. And that fight response can be part of it. Absolutely. It can be people getting angry and agitated.

Mm-hmm. And a lot of. Mental health professionals we're softies and you know, we don't wanna be yelled at. And I, I don't like that either, but I think reframing it in my mind as like, this is just a trauma response. I think. Absolutely. I think there's an added layer of stigma with the military that we might think that automatic assumption might be this person is violent.

Mm-hmm. So, kind of getting outta that mindset Right. And into that, yeah. Trauma informed mindset. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I think you made a great, make a great point. Just 'cause they were yelling doesn't mean they're violent. They may raise their voice 'cause they're hurting and who's not stumping their toe and screamed.

Yes. So if we think about internal pain, it's the same thing. You sometimes you have that internal pain, you just wanna scream. Mm. Yeah. So, yeah. And it sounds like for people that are not mental health professionals, maybe just checking in and just being curious like, what, what's on your mind right now?

Yeah. Or what's going on? What's most important in your life? Yeah. Or saying, Hey, how are you really doing? I mean, you know, we often say pass each other in, you know, in the hallways and things like that. Oh, how's it going? Whatever. Just a general greeting. Oh, I know. It's so easy to say I'm good, and move on.

Exactly. And not be truthful. Yeah. Yes. I read this somewhere. Mm-hmm. Where the person actually paused. Mm-hmm. And really thought about it and did respond how they were feeling, and I was like, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. That is so liberating. Absolutely. To just take the sacred pause. And say how you're really doing.

Yes. Yeah. And sometimes you might have to open that door and it's say, oh, how are you really today? Was there anything that. Your family did for you when you were in the military that helped you to feel, you know, connected to them and to feel supported by them? Uh, yeah. My, every time I would go home and visit my family in Kentucky, they would always, you know, make me feel welcomed.

They would, you know, a lot of times honor that in various ways. Uh, family reunions, things like that. But my immediate family that I live with. They would always greet me when I would return from a deployment. Uh, they would always just made me feel welcomed, made me feel like I was missed, like, you know, I'm still part of that family.

Mm. Because it's so easy to become disconnected when you're a thousand miles away on the other side of the world, uh, especially before the advancements of technology where we had Skype and. Zoom and all that stuff. You had to send letters or you had to make that weekly phone call, and it's easy to become, easy to become detached, so by making you feel welcomed and integrate you back into the family slowly and just like, you know, Hey, we're happy that you're home.

I think that's a big thing is that oftentimes we don't actually say something. We mm-hmm. We assume that somebody knows. Yes. That's, so just literally saying what. I miss you. Welcome home. I'm, I'm happy to have you. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's so true, Jill. Yeah. And sometimes a little hug goes a long ways. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Yeah. The ritual of hugs. Yes, yes. Especially when it's from your little girl and, Aw. So, yeah. And I feel like, kind of circling back to the ritual you mentioned about checking in with yourself, and that's almost in a way of like, kind of telling yourself, welcome home today. What, who am I today?

Right. Absolutely. Who am I to tell you what's my values today? How am I gonna make a difference today? You have a question, Kelly? No, no. I'm just really taking this all in and I, I think for listeners, I mean, even those three questions. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Even if they chose to ask one of those questions every day.

Yeah. Could change. Yeah. Change their life. So thank you, Jerry. Wow. Thank you so much. Well, this has been an amazing conversation and we are going to stick around a little longer with Jerry for a special extra conversation. We sure are. It will be aired on the Patreon later, whenever that launches. So. Stay tuned for that.

Alright, goodbye.

All right, ritual Fam. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode and as we mentioned at the end there, we are working on our Patreon. So that is going to be launched in a couple months. We will keep you posted on that. You can follow us on Instagram at Ritual Sisters Pod to stay updated on all that kind of stuff.

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