Welcome to Ritual Sisters podcast. The podcast where we help you feel more grounded and connected through the magic of ritual. And on today's podcast, it's a bird. It's a plane. No, it's Hannah Worcester, PhD, early childhood mental health expert. And birding enthusiast, and she is here to talk to us about all of the ways that she believes birding can help us to connect to the world and to feel more grounded in life.

And it's a wonderful episode, and we hope you enjoy. Hello. Hello, ritual fam. We are so, so excited to have Hannah here with us today. Michelle and I have been looking forward to this interview for weeks Now, Hannah is a birder and she's here to talk to us about birding today. Hannah Worcester is also an expert in early child mental health.

She's a runner and she's also a mom to an adorable toddler. Yes, he's the best. He's absolutely the best. I also wanted to share too, just a little bit about how Michelle and I have known Hannah for over a decade, and we have been so grateful to be in her presence. We were all graduate students together at Colorado State University.

Postgraduate school. We've all stayed really close. We're in a book club together, and we also all just did a big trip to Washington for a relay race where we heard some amazing bird sounds. Yeah, we did. Yes. So, Hannah, thank you for being here. Of course. Yes. And we wanted to start with just, well, how and why did you get into birding?

Great question. I know it's kind of trendy right now, but I'd like to think I'm one of the first. No, I just saw one of the leaders a post. Did you see this one from the Audubon Society on Instagram that they're like millennials are really getting into birding right now. Yeah, so I love the church. You trendsetter, you're, you're center trendsetter.

Thank you. Thank you. So my mom is really into birds and so throughout childhood it was a lot of pointing to birds and kind of tracking them. And so I think I was just raised in that mindset. And then when I had my son Sorn, it was springtime and I was in that kind of postpartum oxytocin, dump bliss, and I had this sort of newfound realization of what's the future of our world?

Right for this child. I just brought into it, and so birding became really big for me. Then I read a book called The Bird Way by Jennifer Ackerman. And she talked about just the way that birds think and approach the world and how different their brains are from ours. We've typically compared birds based on their brain size and assume they're not as smart as humans, but she really argues that they're smart in their own ways and in a lot of ways smarter than us for many things like directions, which I'm very bad at.

So that's very inspiring. Same here, girl. He got so bad at the directions, so, so at that time it was. Spring of 2023. It was a gorgeous spring. I don't know if you remember, just lush and green. And I just started to read these books and go out in the world with Sorin on walks and start to feel really more connected to the natural world and to the birds, and started feeding them in my backyard.

And now I have this whole ecosystem of birds that rely on me and want, need me to feed them. And that, um, that's kind of where it started. And it's, and it's gone from there. And so in terms of the why, I really think that birding is a way that connects us with a natural world. It kind of calls us into that connection and that can be healing not just for us, but also for the natural world.

If we care about the living beings around us that are maybe more vulnerable to pollution or to climate change, or to different, to deforestation, then we are more likely to be, uh, motivated. To stop some of those changes because we care about the chickies and the woodpeckers and whether they'll have a place to live and whether they'll be able to feed their babies and survive.

And so I think that's really what's driven me to, to be more interested in it and to, as you've seen, try to get everyone in my world interested in birds. And you're successful. I have tried. Really very successful. I have more plots coming, so we're here for Yes. So, uh, more to come on now. Yeah, that's how, that's how it all began and how it's progressed.

You know, that's so heartwarming and even just how you describe that. I can tell how heart-centered this is for you. Yeah. Yeah. And I think one thing to mention that, you know, I was a little nervous coming onto a podcast about birds. 'cause I'm not, you see these birders who can identify every bird by their call and they go out with their huge cameras and binoculars and they're like very.

I mean respect, all respect to them, but very into it and very knowledgeable, and I am not that. Mm-hmm. I'm just on runs and like, oh, I heard a bird. I wonder what it is. And I use my app and I try to figure it out. But I think there can be a little bit of kind of gatekeeping and superiority in the birding community.

But I don't think that's helpful. Mm. I think that, you know, again, all respect to people who are really, really into it and who are total experts, but I think if we want to kind of change the world and get people more engaged with nature, I think we need to make birding more accessible. Yeah. And so that's kind of part of my life goal, even though it's not my official job, it's my hobby and my passion, but I think, you know, making it.

Just much more accessible and much more available to people. Yeah. So I appreciate the opportunity to do that here a little bit. Yes. And I cannot wait to get more into that, that piece that you just talked about, how to make this more accessible for everyone. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that is, you know, so important to have these conversations.

'cause I think that's, for me, hearing birding feels intimidating, but even just being around you and seeing how. Which you're getting into it and just integrating into your life. It makes it feel like, okay, I, I could maybe my toes in this. I'm glad it's working. Yeah. I mean, people are out there trying to see every bird in the world.

It's called the Big Year. There's a movie about it with Owen Wilson, Jack Black and Steve Martin. It's a very good movie. What is is movie it called? The Big Year? The Big Year, and it's a thing people do they, I need to watch that asap. Yeah. They travel all around the world and they try to see every bird.

In the world. Mm-hmm. And I don't know if anyone, no one's ever seen every bird, but they have like lists that they've seen and they have to prove it. And, you know, you have to see it with your eyes. Mm. And that's a whole other level. I, I have dreams of being that into it, but I am, you know, working full-time with a toddler.

So the birding I do is what's in my backyard, what's on my runs, what's available in these chunks of time that I have. And so I think there's space for both, right? Mm-hmm. The people that are really into it and really, you know, experts and I think the rest of us who can, who can find a different way to engage with birds.

So, yeah, that's my hope. So, speaking of which, you kind of mentioned, you know, you're a toddler mom right now. You're working full time, so you don't have a ton of time, you know? To really fully invest in this, but where would you say you're at in life right now? Where would you say your life phase is currently?

Yes. I thought about this. Mm-hmm. I see I settled on early spring and you know, we're in early spring, so it feels like I'm cheating a little bit, but. You know, having a toddler, you've planted all these seeds in their infancy, and then you start to see these little seedlings come up, right? Mm-hmm. He's starting to say the ABCs, he is starting to count.

He's starting to show this affection and call to us, and so, so beautiful. It feels like these like. This work I put in over the winter of, of infancy is really starting to bloom. And I think similarly in my career feels very aligned. I spent about 10 months applying for jobs, feeling really stuck and feeling like, where do I wanna go?

What kind of job do I want? And then I landed at Dream Job and started at about a month ago. And so that's really new. Feels really new. I'm building new relationships and I'm also kind of looking back and reflecting on making sense of where I've come from because you know, when you're applying for jobs for 10 months and you're getting rejected over and over again, oh, hard, it's hard.

Hits a toll on your ego a little bit. And so, um, and so I started to have a little bit of questioning and regret of like, why did I make these choices? 10 years ago. And, um, but that, but now that I've landed somewhere good, that I really like, I can kind of look back and make sense about it and that makes sense of it.

And that feels, that feels kind of like early spring, kind of coming out of that winter and looking back on, on that stage. So that's my conclusion is early spring. And I think similarly like social life, spiritual life, I would think everything feels kind of like it's growing and in bloom and also trying to make sense of what's come before.

So I love that imagery, Hannah. Thank you. Yeah. It sounds like a lot of things Yeah. Are sprouting. Yeah. For you in this season of life. Yeah. And that feeling you get when you go outside and you planted a seed and then it comes up. It's the same magic. It's magic, right? And it's just this thrill and like, I can't believe that happened.

And it's the same with a toddler, right? Like when you start. Singing the Wheels on the Bus, which is his favorite song, and he sings it over and over again. I'm like, that's amazing, right? I have planted that seed. He planted that seed all by himself 'cause that's all he wants to hear. But, but still, we, it's really cool to see his growth and development and how that's emerging.

Just like those seedlings in our backyards. Oh yeah. Yeah. We planted pat potato. So far we've planted potatoes, potato, onions, and lettuce. Okay. And you're exactly right, Hannah, like seeing those sprouts, it's so, yeah. Oh, like I wish just admiring them today. Mm-hmm. And they look so healthy. So let's hope that continues.

I'm sure I'll have to update the podcast. Um, I'm sure they'll be singing wheels on the bus.

Or their favorite song. Yes. Yes. I should like some music for them. Oh yeah. That's cute. I think it does help really. I swear the plants and Sorens room are the healthiest in the house, and that's where we sing the most. Okay. You hear that? Bring that speaker outside. Yeah. Sing to your plants. Well, thank you for that, Hannah.

Yeah. And we also always love to ask our guests, could you tell us. Little bit about your relationship to ritual and ceremony? Yes. If you had asked me this a few weeks ago without thinking about it, I might have had that sort of kneejerk self-critical response. Mm-hmm. That I think is common. Mm-hmm.

Because we see this social pressure to have the 10 step morning routine with all of the meditation and journaling and exercise, and I have just never been that person. I'm lucky to get. From point A to point B in the morning. I'm surviving. I like my sleep. And so I have never been the person with like this polished ritual routine.

But thinking about it, I do have rituals in my life and some of them I think about as kind of top down and intentional. I've been a lifelong runner. Runner as you've mentioned. So running is always something that even when I pause for a little while, I always come back to it and it feels very centering.

It feels very much for me. I've. Been going to church my whole life and we go with, with with Soren, and that feels like very much a ritual. We have family traditions both with my family of origin and with my new family. And so all of those feel very intentional. I found a journaling that works for me, which is one line a night.

Ooh. Wait, can you tell us more about that? One line a night? It's a five year journal, so the day has five years on the page. So I'm on year four, and so each day I write down just what did I do today? And I can look back I, on the last, last three years, and it's really cool, especially now with a 2-year-old, I can look back on like the day he was born and what we were doing two weeks in and you're like, whoa, look at where we've come from.

So it's really cool. Um, so that's something. Day. Each page is a day across five years. Oh, that, oh, that's incredible. We need to link that. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. Journaling can be so intimidating for people. And I feel like that is, it's very, it's very accessible, which is a theme that is we're bringing it in.

Yeah. Um, it's very accessible. And then, you know, and I think. Other journaling has a place for when I'm feeling stuck in my head, when I'm feeling anxious, when I'm spinning out on something. You know, my husband has instructions to send me to my journal. I try to remember to do that, and it is very, very helpful.

But I think we experience more resistance to that kind of deeper journaling. Mm-hmm. And so I kind of like to have both that sort of just. The bare bones, what did I do today? That's sort of a record of my life. And then the journal that's more for processing. And so those are the kind of top down rituals, and I think especially relevant today, I have noticed, especially with birding and running and being out in the outdoors, I think the world calls to us and calls this into more spontaneous, organic rituals of pausing and listening to the bird or trying to figure out.

Where it is in the trees and really looking and being really in tune with nature or, you know, my, the Downey Woodpecker lands on my wood. Or a bird feeder. And I get really excited and I pause and I watch, and then Soren's gotten into that with me where he'll get his quiet voice and he'll go, Chicky or precious he'll at me.

And it's so he likes feeding the birds. So we do that, we scoop the bird seed in. And so I think that's this other way of reframed ritual is that sometimes it just happens, right? And it's not like I'm, I'm not telling myself I'm in a ritual, but nonetheless it is. Intentional. It's slowing down. It feels very meaningful and very connecting.

And so I think that's where birds really helped me out 'cause they called me in that way. So, um, yeah, and I love that you just a fun fact about you that you have taught Sorin the different bird sounds. Yeah. Well he knows a lot of of bird names. He knows. Yeah. But that's true. He does know a lot of bird sounds.

He knows Oh yeah. He knows like Goose and Howell and Chickie and it's very funny, I think like being a child development person. Mm-hmm. Like the way they categorize things in his, in their minds. Mm-hmm. So, um, he had a shirt on yesterday that was seagulls and fish. It's super cute. And we were like, oh, look at your cute birds on your shirt.

And he goes. No segels to him. There are birds, there are Segels. There are eagles, there are owls. They're chicken, you know, it's like they're not the same. So he like, he's such a vocabulary already for the birds. He knows a lot of birds. Yeah. Yeah. He gets them a little mixed up when we're, we're working on it.

He gets see a little bit of that like. Critical voice when I brought up that. You don't have to worry about it. I'm impressed if he knows one single. So Michelle and I are so impressed. I'll stop drilling it with the flashcard. I'm just kidding. I don't do that.

Alright, we need to get deeper into your burning wisdom. We, we got you. Thank you. Tell us a little bit about. What is inspiring to you about birds? And maybe even do birds have their own rituals where we need to know? Do they, oh, do they cut me off when you've enough?

I think first of all, and I'll get into some really cool bird facts in a moment, but first of all, as you look around and you start to watch and there's a really lovely book by Amy Tan called The Backyard Bird Chronicles, and it, it's a little slow. It's might be good for putting you to sleep, but it's also beautiful 'cause she just watches the birds in her backyard and she just wonders.

And that's, I think, a beautiful way to approach birding. But the cool thing that I've noticed is the more I just look up and look around and I say, oh, there's a crow, there's a hawk. You start to see like this bird drama. So crows will swarm, or what do they call it? Mob, a hawk or an eagle. 'cause they don't want them to eat their eggs.

And so you'll or littler birds even will mob the birds of prey. And you'll start to see that drama play out above your, above your head. And it was happening all along and I never noticed it. Right. And then. There's drama at the bird feeder between the different birds and who's dominant. And even within a certain species, there's personality and there's dominance.

And so you can look around at that. Chickies have a way of communicating with each other and with other birds around threats. So like the Chick D call, the more Ds there are, the bigger the threats. So if there's an owl, luing, interesting. If there's a predator that might eat them, they're talking to each other.

And so there's a lot of communication. There's a lot of social world happening for birds, and then there's, you know, the traditional mating rituals and dances that you'll see on planet Earth and, you know, nest building and all the different ways that birds. Live their lives and they migrate. Right? So little hummingbirds will migrate across the Gulf of Mexico to go.

They'll go from Canada down to, you know, I don't actually really know. I think it's like somewhere in Cuba. Cuba or Mexico. They just go south, right? But they, they stop in Texas and load up on Nectar, and then they just five, 500 miles. And these are birds that during a typical day have to stop. Every two minutes for food because they're so little and they use so much energy.

So nobody quite knows how they do it, but they do it every year. They just migrate across, that's a mystery across the Gulf of Mexico. 500 miles. Right? Wow. And they know where to go. And so anyway, so there are these big scale rituals such as the migration and these small scale rituals like fighting over food or mobbing each other.

I don't know if these are just behaviors, I don't know if they're rituals, but getting into. More of a traditional ritual. There are a lot of birds that will do different dances or ways of attracting a mate. And there's this bird in Australia. So we're, we're gonna take our field trip to go see the, we're, we're ready.

And there are different species, but it's called a Bauer bird. And the Bauer Bird, the male Bauer bird builds a structure. So he takes sticks and he builds this crazy kind of stage with two sides to it. So picture kind of two crescent shaped. Mm-hmm. Bundles of sticks, and then he gathers items to decorate the floor of it.

So he has kind of this stage and one of the, the satin barrel bird really likes blue. And so he gathers blue shells, blue flower petals, blue human items. They steal from each other. More bird drama, you've gotta love it. And they lurk in the in the trees and wait for the one to leave so he can steal their loot.

But they decorate with this blue, all this blue. So this is just one species. And then the female comes along and the male will show, she'll stand in the middle of the sticks and the male will show off his cool blue items. And then he will do a dance and a song for her. Wow. And she somehow knows how to evaluate whether this guy's smart enough for her.

Right? That's their best guess is it's intelligence, or it could just simply be beauty that she's looking for. Oh, and so there's like an evolutionary theory that females, especially, at least in the bird world, and maybe in the human world too, have really incentivized beauty for the males, right? Mm-hmm.

And they have been sort of this evolutionary force to increase beautiful rituals and beautiful feathers and beautiful dances that then change the behaviors of the males. So, so that's one bird and it's just the intelligence it requires to be able to do that is wild. Right? It's so wild. Yeah, it's crazy.

And each species has their color preference and they can, they arrange the items by size to create a sense of scale and sort of force perspective. It's crazy. Mm-hmm. These birds are so smart. So then building this structured. With the hypothesis is that it's like an architecture, like it's spark. Yeah.

Building it to be beautiful, to be beautiful as a way to show off their stuff and their dance and, and the, and the female stands in it and it's kind of her spot where she watches him perform. So yeah. Wow. And that's just one bird. And that bird, I mean, he's the pinnacle of artistry in horror world, but how you said that, yeah.

Yeah, but hummingbirds have some really cool mating rituals where they fly up in the air, like straight up vertically, and then they shoot down at like, it's something like, I'm so bad at remembering numbers. That's okay. Some bird need to tell me I'm wrong, but something like 50 miles an hour, they're like shooting up and down.

I've seen it once. I was like, what's happening? There's like seen that in real life. Hand buzzing. Yeah. Yeah. He was shooting up and then shooting down and, and as he shoots down, he lifts his chin to show his red. Feathers and that's like the splashing. And so there's a lot of choreography. There's a lot of ritual there in terms of the mating piece of it.

Yeah. Birds do have rituals, and I do find it the question that I kind of lost track, but what's inspiring about it? I think it's inspiring that it exists, right? Mm-hmm. Because I, I don't know about you, but growing up around birds, I was like, oh, they're cute, right? They sing, they're cute. Mm-hmm. They're building their nest like, oh, bird brain.

Right? But to realize that they have this whole world, yeah. That they're living in a complex world, a very complex world, and it gets more complex in certain areas of the world where they don't migrate, like Papua New Guinea and Australia and some of the tropics. Where the birds really stay put and they kind of build their world.

But even in our world, the chickies and the finches and the hummingbirds, they have these complex social lives and, and it really makes me care, right? Mm-hmm. It's like if a bird gets sick and dies, or is, or is killed, like I'm sad about it to where I wouldn't have been before. I knew all of this, and so that I think is one of the benefits.

To getting people into birding with that curious mind or whether it's, whether it's reading the books and getting all the facts or just kind of watching and saying, I like the way that bird looks and I think I like its song and I like it waking me up in the morning. Right? Yeah. And, and then we care. And that feels more connecting.

That feels more meaningful. And it's a way, I think, for us to feel more invested in the natural world. So there's this. Concept. I didn't tell you I was gonna talk about this, so sorry. Oh. Oh. But there's this concept that I heard in a podcast. It, it was either Invisibilia or Malcolm Gladwell's podcast. I'm so sorry.

But they talked about the issue of scale when it comes to the natural world and environmentalism, where it's really hard to get people to conceptualize cognitively what's happening. Right? If you say the world is, the temperature's increasing by half a degree, it's like. What does that mean? That's kind of too big to grasp.

I think a, yeah, a lot of people struggle with that. Yeah. Yeah. And so the Save the Whales kind of campaign that happened. I was gonna research this before. Okay. I'm just gonna speak off the cuff. I'm so sorry. This will not be historically accurate. In the seventies, I believe they re realized humpback whales, the population was declining.

This was this huge crisis. But people were like, what whales? What? Who cares about the whales? Not really. But there was hard to get people to really care and sort of be able to conceptualize. What whales were doing, what were, you know, and so somebody recorded the whale singing. Oh. And they actually put it on a record and sold it.

So some artists did this, and when people heard the whales singing, they were like, oh. These whales have something in common with us humans and I can, I can conceptualize now this whales world in a way, and then they save the whales. Long story short, I don't dunno how to, they save the whale, but they save the whales.

I love this story, Ken. Yeah. Hopefully we can link this and find this somehow. Yeah. I failed to do my. Research. I'm so sorry. No, that's okay. I here to talk about birds anyway. So the point being, how dare you not do your whale research to come on a birding topic? You're getting a peek into how my brain works, which is little fuzzy in there in terms of the specifics.

But, um, but anyway, that was. Sort of the, the traction that the whale activists needed was they couldn't just say like, oh, the statistics and there's the whales, and why do we care? But they had to really bring it down to scale so that people could understand it. And I think that birds could be a way to do that for the environment in general, because they are a good indicator of how is our natural world doing?

Right? If birds are thriving. Yes. In the natural world overall, the ecosystem is thriving. And so if we can get people. To latch on even one bird, right? Maybe it is like the owl in, on the Pooter trail that I'm obsessed with and go look at it every couple weeks. I, we can link that photo. Yeah. Do you have a photo of the owl?

I do. Very good, but I can't. Oh, that's okay. That's fine. I'll find it for you. Or the chickies in your backyard. The woodpecker or the hawk. That's. Like your neighborhood hawk, every neighborhood probably has a hawk. And if you can get people to really care and understand that and sort of see that as either part of your world or analogous to your world or meaningful to your world, then I think, you know, we're gonna be a little more upset if they're cutting down trees or if you know they're drilling somewhere, if they're.

You know, if we're buying so much plastic that we can't find somewhere to put it, and it has to go into the ocean and it hurts the ocean. Birds for birds, what did they call 'em on our trip? The waterfowl. The waterfowl. Waterfowl. Oh yeah. We, we were looking for those waterfowl. We waterfowl, we were looking in the Pacific Northwest.

Yeah. Canon less than I hoped, but. Hannah, would you say this is a big reason why birding is important to you or, yes. Because I'm hearing Yeah. These really important environmental themes Yes. Coming up around this. It is, and I think it's a both and. Right. I just love them. I think they're amazing. I think they're fascinating.

They have these really cool worlds and they're so intelligent and they're so cute. Right. They're just adorable. Mm-hmm. But also, I think it is this bridge to helping people. Care and take meaningful action and think about the impact of all the things that we do that might have an impact on the natural world, positive or negative.

Yeah, and if you think about someone living in a city such as, you know, New York, Chicago, wherever I. For some people, a pigeon or a sparrow crow might be the only wildlife they ever see outside of like a squirrel maybe. But you know, for for families it's a great point. And kids that never really leave the city because they don't have access or because it's just not part of their lives, this might be the only wildlife they see is a pigeon.

Right. And what a way to connect and see and what a way to connect themselves in nature. Yes. Yes, but don't feed them. Oh, should we not be feeding the pigeons? Should we? I'm not an expert on pigeon feedings. I don't think I just have to feed the pigeons for the pigeon to find your food. Like Yeah, they just, I think they're, I think they're gonna get to it.

Pigeons are very well adapted to likeum. Yeah. And pigeons are funny 'cause they're really, I was telling Kelly this earlier, they're really dumb in some ways. Like there's this whole subreddit on like dumb dove dust. Nest, dumb dove nests, cut them, shell or dumb, whatever. Um, and doves and pigeons are, you know, they're very, they're similar species, but they will just like build their nest in a parking lot or on like your doorstep.

And then apparently they sometimes step on their eggs or drop them. Mm-hmm. And they're, or they're like carrying one stick at a time to their nest and they drop it and they're like, oh. Whoops, so, so they're kind of dumb in some ways, and we have this vision of pigeons as really dumb, but they are very smart too, so they were used to carry messages.

Oh, okay. They have very good mapping in their brain where they can get from point A to point B. If you think about the messenger pigeon, pigeon era. Oh yes. Mm-hmm. Which I think we should go back to, by the way. I do too. I was just talking about this on the other one, but also fun fact about me. I used to clean pigeon cages as one of my college jobs.

'cause they had pigeons for the, uh, what were they? Psych study department, Michelle Cognitive psychology. Michelle was doing the good work. I was just cleaning up the poop, to be honest with you. Flash at the same time. Yeah. I'm sure they were learning all sorts of stuff. Are you sure? Yeah, because they, yeah, they can like differentiate different styles of art.

They can put things in order of number, I mean, they're. They're very smart and very dumb at the same time. But back to my point, the same could be said about a lot of people. Exactly. And a lot of, a lot of just beings. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't, I can't like direct myself through the world the way a pigeon can.

No, I'm not gonna pretend like can get from point way. Don't even test me without Google maps. So, um, so all that to say, we sometimes have these biases against certain birds and we see them as Yeah, stupid or kind of annoying, but for so many people when that's their only experience mm-hmm. With another creature other than humans or pets.

And that, that I think is another avenue in to say like, what it. What do you wanna know about the pigeon? Right. Do you know that it is smart in some ways and dumb in others? Mm. And so, um, so anyway, I just think that that's another way to think about access to Yes. To the natural world and to caring and to, to seeing it differently through a different lens.

Mm. Especially for those urban communities. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of different worlds, I know you kind of mentioned that the birding community can feel a little gatekeeping and Yeah. I know there was that story in the news back in 2020. What was the story? Do you remember this one? Christian Cooper. Christian Cooper.

Cooper was birding in Central Park. Mm-hmm. And he, there was lady, did I hear this? Amy Cooper weirdly, but they were unrelated. I forgot her name, but she was walking through the park with her dog off leash and she's a white woman. He's a black male, birding. He asked her to put her dog on leash and she called the police on him.

Wow. Yeah. And that story blew up, but mm-hmm. I think part of it is that we don't, we have certain biases that are just part of our world. It's not like saying anybody's a bad person. We just have these biases and we have this vision of who belongs in certain spaces. Right. Like who's in the burden community.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is problematic. And I, and like I said earlier, I think having. A ton of respect for, there are people who, yeah, they, they're all entire travel is to go see birds and to photograph them and to see them. And I think that's hugely important to have that layer of expertise and of passion.

And I think we need to be mindful that anyone can bird. I had a tiny experience with this myself, where my typical birding. Mm-hmm. I have a toddler. I am not going out for hours with binoculars. I am birding in my backyard and I'm birding on runs with a toddler and a stroller for the most part. Right? And I sometimes bring my binoculars and I look up and that's kind of just how I see things.

And you'd be amazed at how many birds I can see on a run. For this. I've been there for some of that. Hannah. Yeah. And yeah, you saw that strike. That was exciting. That was really, really special. It's a fierce little bird, but yeah, and like in, in Fort Collins, it's great birding. You go on the Spring Creek Trail, you can see.

I dunno. 10 species in, in a four mile run. It's pretty amazing. That's amazing for you local Fort Collins people go to the Spring Creek Trail. So I was running with a kind of a new acquaintance and we saw this bird and I was like, I've never seen that bird before. So I pull up my phone. Maybe you could get the S as a sponsor, but the Cornell Lab of Ornithology has an app called Merlin, which is awesome for helping people identify birds.

They've been hounding us. They heard I was coming on. Yes, yes. So I used my app and I figured out it was a Wilson Snipe, and I was so excited. I was like, I've never seen this bird. This is so cool. And the person who was with me, her partner is a big birder and she was like, well, let me text him and see. And then later she texted me back and oh, he confirmed it's a Wilson Snipe.

He's seen it a bunch. And I was like. What I need his help. And I had this like really briskly reaction. And I know that's partly me. I, I'm sure her intentions were good to just, you know, confirm for me. But I was like, who are you to check with your partner? Like, and he's much more of a birder than me.

Right. And now she'll, she'll kind of like drop like hell, he's out looking for this bird, he's an bird. So it's almost like hierarchical in a way, feels very hierarchical. Yeah. Like he's the expert and I'm just, you know, using my phone and. I am, I'm not an expert, but it felt I that, and that's kind of, I think what can happen and I just don't know if, I don't know if it's helpful and it just is.

Right. Yeah. It just is. And I, and I, and again, trying to, trying to hold both like this respect for people who do put in the time and who do go out with their binoculars and really immerse themselves in that world and then. The rest of us who are like, I can take a walk and I can look for a bird, and then I have to go home and cook dinner and go to my job and live my life and I don't have the space to.

To give it that much. Hannah, I love how you've woven this in your life. Yeah. And and I think that's gonna really resonate with a lot of people. Mm. Yeah. Because I think sometimes it's like, yeah, I just don't have the time or I don't have the bandwidth. Yeah. To bird. Yeah. And it's like, well, think about, yeah.

So many of us, especially 'cause the weather's warming up, right? We wanna be on our patios or porches or you know, wherever you hang out outside and just. Really leaning into this. Yeah. And you've inspired me today to think, you know, when I am just, you know, sitting, reading or journaling. Yeah. Just to open my ears a little bit more.

Yes. And be curious about not only if I see a bird, but what's the behavior like? I feel like that's. Such an extra layer. Mm-hmm. And then it's inspiring me of, yeah, if we can get curious about the behavior of birds, we might get more curious about the behavior, right. Of our coworkers or humans in our life that we might instantly judge.

Right. So again, that mirror nature being our mirror. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. I think it's. It is transformed my way of approaching the world and it's so fun 'cause my husband Aaron has gone right alongside me and what schools? He has his Aaron, he has his fish that he's like in the brain. He loves you lost, loves the fish, loves fishing, and he can point to the fish and he's really good at identifying them.

Now, to be fair, there are like, I don't know, like 10 fish species in Colorado. I don't know, 20. And there's probably like. Thousands of bird species. So to be fair to you, being, to be fair to me, not knowing all the birds, and he knows all the fish. He's been at it a lot longer than me too. But, um, but he's been right alongside me.

And so now when we're on hikes, we pause, right? Oh, and I think it's this reframing the way you move through the world and, and allowing. Birds to like call to you and to say, pause and slow down and listen and pay attention to the world around you, rather than just being the adults we are where we're like point A to point B and it's very similar with a toddler and a baby, right?

Like they force you to slow down, they force you to come down and play. Or they, you know, they look you in the eyes and giggle or say something and that forces you. And just slowing down. And that's something that we all need. And I really need, you know, referencing back my morning routine Yeah. Survival mode.

Yeah. And I think that, I think that's what birds can do for us is invite us to slow down. And so now, you know, I'm on a run and I don't, I don't really care how fast I go because. You know, sometimes I have to stop and, and look at birds and my cousin on Elisa used to tell me stories how she would go for like a 30 minute run and it would take her an hour.

'cause she would just like run into the trees to find a bird that she heard. And I was like, yes. That's amazing, right? Like, who cares how fast you're going? Yes. And sometimes, you know, we're training for stuff. I know you Michelle, are training for something and maybe there are times when. I was like, no, don't talk about it.

Yeah. Sorry. I don't wanna jinxy, don't jinx me, don't jinxy. That's in the story. No, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. Um, but yeah, but being able, sometimes we have to go fast. But whenever we don't have to, when that's not required, how can we slow down? How can we let the world call to us and let the, let the birds call to us?

'cause they are, and they're, they're talk, they're not calling to us. They're talking to each other. But it's, it's an opportunity. I think to, to really listen. Ooh. And be engaged and connected to nature. Yes. Yeah. That could be a book you write. Yeah. Let the bird, where was it? Let the birds call to us. Let the world called us.

Okay. So now we're gonna get into some, some things that people can take away and how they can. Incorporate bird into their lives. 'cause I'm sure everybody's feeling so inspired, but also like, how do I 100% start this process? So can you talk, speak to a little bit more of. How did you start to get deeper into the birding world?

What are some tangible things that people could do to Yeah. Yeah. Become birders. I think there's so many ways, right? And you can link it to your current hobbies. So we were talking about if you're like me and your runner, or a hiker or a walker, you know, I will. Start to track while I'm running because I'm kind of looking around.

It keeps me entertained and keeps me going, start looking for birds. And so I started to learn where along the trails the bald Eagles live and where the little Kingfisher hangs out. And, and then I would start to, you know, run to that location and look for them. And if I get lucky, I see the kingfisher to runs in a row, or I see the Blue Heron in the same spot as last week.

'cause they have their own routines just like us. And so I think that's. That's really easy, right? To just start looking and noticing and, and, and wondering like, oh, I wonder if that bird look hangs out here lot and I'll just come back and look for it. Right. Or just to keep looking as you're, as you're moving through the world.

So I think just having that curious mind looking around, listening and you know, for some people those songs are so pretty and you can start to. There's the, the, the app I talked about, the Merlin app. You can Merlin app. You can, how do you spell that? Hannah? Like the wizard. M-E-R-L-I-N. Okay, perfect.

There's also a bird called, I'm downloading it tonight. Do it. Yeah. Yeah. And you can press sound ID and it will tell you what bird you're listening to. And so, um, you can start to learn about the birds in your backyard as you're sitting on your. Back porch, like you said, yes, you can hang a bird feeder, another sponsor.

I love it. The squirrel buster is the best one. If you don't want squirrels on your bird feeder. 'cause the squirrels really like the bird seed. But you know, people have different feelings about squirrels. I don't mind feeding 'em, I just don't want them to make themselves at home. 'cause then there's a lot of them.

But, um, yeah, so the squirrel buster. It is a great bird feeder to keep the squirrels away. Other ones say there's squirrel proof. They are not. This is a great endorsement. Real talk. People tag talk on the social. Um, so yeah, hanging a bird feeder and, you know, putting it close to the trees is really good so that the birds, like, some birds like the chickies, they like to come and grab a seed and then go off, right?

They're not gonna linger. So you really gotta watch for 'em. Whereas the finches, they'll just sit on that bird feeder and they'll chirp at each other and, and lick around. So anyway, so you can, you can kind of tie it to your hobbies. So if people are artists or if they're readers, you can take your book out into nature and just read and listen for the birds or look around or bring your paints or your different artistic elements and, and draw them or just draw what's around you.

But I think the core component being how do you get outdoors and just be still. Or at least open your eyes and look around if you're moving and start to really tune in. And then if you wanna go deeper, I think using the app or using birding books, birding ID books, you can keep a journal. I have my bird journal here where I just write what I've seen and I didn't know you did that.

Yeah, I don't, don't have all the answers. I don't always know. I've gotten some things wrong, but that's okay. It's just birding notes and you can keep a bird journal and you know. It doesn't have to be perfect, just what you see, what you're observing. I've certainly gotten a lot wrong in mine. I don't know always what I'm looking at, but that is a fun way to deepen a little bit.

There are a lot of books, so Jen, Jennifer Ackerman has. Four books about birds. There's one about owls, there's one about shore birds, and then there's two about bird intelligence. And they have ton of, a lot of bird facts that are very, very enjoyable across the world. And there's lots of other books to to dive into.

Around birding that can really help you learn and, and, and approach birds in a new way and understand their world differently. And then, you know, there's the diving headfirst in where you get all the gear, you get the binoculars, you go out and you camp. There's another app called eBird, which is more for the birders, so it will show you on a map.

People will record what they've seen. It's kind of a data collection. And so, oh, nice. There's like this owl I really wanna see and I have found out it's in Laurie. And so I have this goal of going to Laurie at the right time to try to find this owl, this solid owl that I've never seen before. And so those are some ways you can deepen and you know, that's aspirational for me at this point, but, um, I think that's what a lot of folks do to who are really into it.

So there's lots of ways to, to engage, but I think. The core message being that it is available to anyone there, there is not a gate in place, right? Like anyone can start to be curious about and feel connected to the natural world and to birds. Specifically in these, all these books I've read, there's a book by Aldo Leo Paul called a Sand County Almanac.

It's not just about birds, but it's a really beautiful reflection on the natural world and. Um, and he proposes this kind of new way of approaching, approaching conservation. It was written in the fifties, so it really was transformative for a lot of people. And you know, he talks about this and even the scientists that are cited in Jennifer Ackerman's book talk about this idea that like, we'll never really know, right?

We can ask all the questions of why does a Bauer Bird build this stage? Right? Yeah. Is it for. Beauty, is it for intelligence? Like why, why are they doing these things or, or what's really going on? Or how do the hummingbirds get across the ocean and we'll never know? And that's, I think, kind of comforting because I can watch the birds and not know what's going on.

And as deep as you go, you'll never really have all the answers. And I think that's okay, because it invites us to be curious and to just practice being connected to the natural world, even when we don't have all the answers. So. Hannah, that is so wise. Wow. I felt that in my body. I am really gonna be taking this in.

Yeah. I mean. My goodness. Just the acceptance and and celebration that we don't know at all. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And how And how sacred that is. Yeah. We as humans, we have to try to figure it all out and have all the answers and I am so tired of like, yeah. Energy of I need to know and yeah. Yeah. I've been trying so hard to release that and yeah, I think today's conversation showing me, my goodness, birds.

Birds will help Show me the way. So thank you. I think there's a line, right? There's that healthy curiosity and that healthy learning, but it can transform into this sort of dogmatic 100%. Like we can't conclude anything because we don't have all the answers, or we can't anthropomorphize these birds because we don't have the data for that, right?

Like, and I think it can turn into this really rigid limiting mindset. So trying to stay on the side of curiosity and openness and wonder, and giving ourselves permission not to know, I think is, is the way to do it. Mm-hmm. And I think that is an opportunity we can have as we start to wonder about the birds.

Oh. Beautiful. I think I'm gonna go sit on my porch and watch some birds. We'll absolutely join you Michelle's do it. And you know, truly what a joy to have witnessed you on this birding journey. Thank you. No one else will listen to me, so I appreciate it. Well, now they'll listen. Now they're ready. They've made this part.

Oh, thank you so much for being here. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Yes, thank you. Hey, bye bye. Alright, ritual fam, we hope you enjoyed today's episode with Hannah. We know we had an amazing time talking to her, and we have been thinking a lot about birds and birding since the episode aired.

If you enjoy today's episode, we would love to have you leave us a comment. Rate us. Wherever you listen to your podcast. It would mean so much to us, and you can also always reach us at our website, ritual sisters pod.com or our Instagram at Ritual Sisters pod. Let us know if you enjoy birding, what your favorite birds are and other topics that you want us to cover on the show.

So wherever you are, whatever you're doing, have a magical time. Goodbye.