Spreading joy and harmony in our joint discovery, Finding connection. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, Ritual Sisters. 

Hey Ritual Fam! This is Michelle. I'm so excited to announce our guest today. She's a really good friend of mine. It's Kayla Jackson from Seattle, Washington. She has a master's in public administration, but she's also an incredible artist. During the pandemic, she got into pottery and ceramics and she got to the point where she was even teaching classes and selling her art online.

So we really wanted to talk to her about the creative process and working through blocks. But we also got into finding inspiration in the world around you and using art as part of advocacy. It's a really interesting conversation, and we think that you'll get a lot out of it. I know Kelly and I did. So just take a deep breath, let's start this journey. 

We're so excited to welcome Kayla to Ritual Sisters Pod. Kayla, it's great to have you. Thanks for having me. Oh, of course. And today we just can't wait to talk to you about creative outlets, about your relationship with art. Um, but before we get into that, we just want to get to know you a little bit. Yeah, sounds good.

Okay, perfect. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, so I'm Kayla. I live in Seattle currently. I've lived here for, I think, eight ish years. And I, you know, enjoy making things, being outside. And for work, I work on environmental justice issues and do community engagement related to environmental justice and.

I'm also in a pretty transitional life stage, quite very pregnant, so expecting a baby in a couple weeks or any day, really. Yeah, that's crazy that it's so, when is it, okay, we're recording on February 8th, and your due date is like February 20th? February 20th, yeah. Yeah, tell us a little bit, because that is one of our questions is like, what phase of life are you in right now?

So can you talk a little bit more about this transitionary period of life and like what that's been like for you? Yeah, I feel like especially now, getting closer to the due date, it's kind of all consuming in a lot of ways. Like I'm, Doing a lot of pairing, preparing my space, but also just a lot of preparing my body and mind for birth and being a parent and yeah, so I feel like it's, it's not left a lot of room for a lot of other things.

So, outside of work, so I've been definitely pretty focused on that. Um, and yeah, for the past couple of years too, a little bit like preparing for that and, um, yeah, so I'm definitely in a, it feels like a transitional life place where I'm not really sure what's coming next. There's a lot of uncertainty, a lot of anticipation, preparation.

It makes a lot of sense that it's like work and preparing, like, it's almost like how can you focus on work when you know that it's huge. Life transition is coming up. Yeah, especially because it's like, Oh, it could come at any day. So even just like, sometimes I see the house and I'm like, look at a room and I'm like, Oh no, that needs to be cleaned up.

I'm like, okay, well I have to do it this weekend because I, what if I can't do it next weekend? So just, um, yeah, a lot of like, Um, kind of pressure to get things done and be ready.

Yeah. Such a shift in perspective. Kayla also, um, just for listeners that maybe haven't been to Seattle, I'm curious, could you share a little bit about, I mean, especially after living there eight years, what's it like in Seattle? You know, how does the landscape impact you? Yeah, especially, well, it's, it's, it is February, so it's.

Usually pretty rainy and dreary in the winter. So I feel like it, but in the summer it's very sunny and very comfortable usually, unless there's fires, which are happening more. So yeah, it does. I feel like that, whether that seasonal rhythm kind of impacts me, especially I think in the past too, it was more of my creative process also, cause in the winter, I definitely.

I have more of a desire to stay in and kind of like keep myself busy with other things. When the summer, when it's nicer out, it just, and it's, it gets light for so long throughout the day too. It just really makes you want to be outside. And people are also a lot more social in the summer. It's kind of strange.

Like people just, I feel like people are friendlier in the summer and spring and more likely to make plans. But in the winter, I think probably people have. A lot of seasonal affect disorder and and also there's a lot of introverts too, so I think people just kind of want to be in their house and read and like hunker down in the winter, but it's also really pretty here.

There's a lot of really nice parks and like a lot of really nice places to be outside. So I like to do that a lot with my dog. Yeah, it is interesting how the creative process can be very seasonal because of that. I guess you can be creative outdoors too. Yeah, just has to, I think it's a different, depends on kind of what I'm doing.

But yeah, I guess in terms of the creative process, I kind of got into doing ceramics, mostly during the pandemic. And I think that was. It was especially in the winter when it was pretty dark, and there wasn't a lot of else going on. And so it was easy to be inside for long periods of time, making things.

I think that that specific craft is harder to, a little bit harder to do outside sometimes. Yeah, that's fair. Well we also ask everyone about Just your relationship to ritual and do you have rituals that you do in your life? And yeah, just tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, I think I have some rituals that I do, but I was thinking about this question too, or thinking about the ritual theme.

And I was trying to distinguish what the difference is between habits and rituals. I'm curious what you all think about that. So I think I have some rituals or maybe they're habits. You know, just kind of like when I get up in the morning, like making coffee, eating kind of the same thing for breakfast.

But in general, my relationship to rituals is that I would like to have more rituals and I especially like doing them with other people or in community with people. But it can be pretty intimidating to me to come up with rituals and commit to them on my own. And I kind of get in my head about it a little bit, I think, and it's easy for me to not commit to them.

Especially when it's by myself. Yeah, I think that can be a barrier for some people. Do you feel like it's also Like the pressure to perform a ritual with other people or is it more like staying consistent with something yourself? I think it's the pressure to stay consistent with something myself. Like I have this image of myself that I would be someone who just has, you know, really clear, really intentional rituals, really intentional life where I'm just, you know, every morning getting up, doing yoga, lighting my candles, you know, doing all these things.

That's so relatable. Yeah, but I don't. And then I, so then I kind of feel a lot of guilt around rituals sometimes. Um, cause it feels maybe like an all or nothing thing sometimes. Or just also hard to figure out which things I want to commit to and try out. Yeah, in terms of like habit versus ritual, I think it is that intentionality piece behind it and the mindfulness of it, like being present for that ritual versus, um, just doing something rotely I think is not really a ritual.

Would you say? Yeah, I'm even thinking of like, when I brush my teeth, that's such a habit, right? Like I, I know I brush my teeth, but I know I brush my teeth, but when I'm making coffee in the morning, I get so excited to use my mug for the day. So I'm like, Ooh, I'm going to go in my cabinet with my mugs and.

Figure out which mug fits my energy for the day and I'm pouring my coffee and getting excited about my organic syrup I put in it. So it feels like you're saying Michelle, like intentional, I'm slowing down. Yeah. But Kayla, I love that you're bringing this up. Cause I'm sure a lot of people have these questions kind of sitting with them of yeah.

What is the difference between habit and ritual? Yeah. And maybe I can, there can be some overlap too. Like I definitely do that with my coffee. Um, I collect mugs too, especially as doing ceramics. And so I have mugs from different people. And so definitely take time in the morning to think about which one I'm going to use for the day for the morning.

But it is, it's also a little bit of a habit. Yeah. I was going to say that would be such a sweet like group text or like just to share what mug you choose, you know, cause now I'm like, Oh, I wonder how many of us. Think about the mug in the morning. That's really really sweet. Yeah, I definitely think about the mug for sure Oh my gosh.

Okay, maybe we need to incorporate this ritual of the month. Yeah Yeah, I think also another thing is like I kelly and I were talking about this, um about like what is ritual and everything and i'm definitely more of the One off ritual person like I don't like to be tied down to I have to do this every day, whereas like Kelly is definitely more of the like, just loves like having that ritual every day.

Yeah, I definitely, I, I have some rituals and there's like holiday rituals and things like that, that I'll participate in. And so, yeah, I think I do, I really enjoy participating in rituals in a one off way. And I think I would like to have some that are more regular, but there's also the pressure there, I feel to kind of keep up with those and then it kind of.

Cuts into the enjoyment of the ritual, sometimes. Yeah. Especially in a time where I'm, like, things are kind of up in the air, the schedule isn't, it's kind of consistent right now, but I don't know what it'll be like in a couple weeks, so. Yeah, that is crazy to think that your schedule will be so different.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, but that is another thing I would like to, like, I would like to. Come up with rituals as well, like with my kid too. So, yeah, I was going to say, I feel like having ritual could be a good way to help with that transition into parenthood. I was thinking about that the other day, even just how can, like, I really liked the idea of bedtime routine kind of thing, or maybe there could be rituals incorporated into that.

And that could also even help me with my own rituals. Like it doesn't, in some ways that is with another person. You know, it could help both of us. have sort of a routine. I'm excited to hear more about that, Kayla. Yeah.

Okay. So we're going to talk a little bit more about art and creativity and kind of exploring rituals around that. But let's just start with what is your relationship to the word art or sorry, the words art and artist. Yeah. I feel like that's a tough one right now. It's really hard for me to. I feel attached to the word artist, like as a defining word for myself, I think because I haven't been doing a lot of the art that I was, had been doing before on a regular basis.

So it's kind of a tough relationship because it feels like I'm not an artist if I'm not actively doing art on a certain regular basis. And then what's the, what's the, how often do I have to be doing art to be an artist? This question that I sometimes ask myself, but also in the past, sometimes the word artist has helped me to think about my job to my day job as more of just a job and It's also, it's helped me think about where I want to focus my time outside of work, because if I can think about, I'm an artist, but I do these other things because I have to, or they're kind of, you know, maybe secondary to the art that I'm making, but I don't really feel like that right now because I'm doing that much art.

Yeah, that's interesting that it seems like it's both freeing on some level of this is who I truly am at my core and like liberating from like the capitalistic like definitions of who we are, but then there's also a sense of like constraint to like you have to live up to this word. Yeah, definitely.

Kayla, I'm curious for you, you know, as you think about creating art, what blocks come up sometimes, you know, and it could be, you know, maybe time constraint, but is it some of, yeah, the inner dialogue piece, you know, what blocks show up as you're thinking about creating art? Yeah, I definitely feel like a lot of it is a mental challenge with myself or something.

In the past, I, so I kind of first Like I first started creating art when I was in high school, doing a lot of drawing. What kind of drawing? Can you share a little bit more? Yeah, just drawing me portraits or other things in my life, but mostly people. And then in college to doing a little bit of drawing and painting a little bit more.

And I think at some point I started to feel pressure to make the drawings look good and it became a little bit less fun. And I think that was one thing that attracted me about, about ceramics, because it felt like, first of all, it wasn't drawing, so it was something new that I could try out, but also it, um, I, maybe it was the craft aspect, like it was a little bit more, you could kind of make it, you could draw on it if you want to, or make it look a lot of different ways, but with, maybe with some 2D art and with drawing in particular, it felt like I kind of got in a mental space where I was, you know, expecting it to look a certain way, or just kind of felt like there wasn't a lot of freedom with it for me.

So that was one reason I kind of was drawn to ceramics. But in general, something I've struggled with is that it feels like with art, there's a point where you start to kind of get, get familiar with the medium and kind of get over the initial hump when you're like, okay, I made something. And then, um, after you make something, you feel good about yourself.

Then it starts to get harder because you want it to look good. And then kind of for me, like comes a little bit less fun and more of a challenge that second getting over that second hump kind of, and. Yeah, it's a little bit I think I continue to try to do new like explore new mediums because I think it opens up a little bit more freedom sometimes, and kind of has a little bit less self criticism sometimes because you get that rush of why me I like learned how to do this new thing, and not getting stuck as much in.

Little details of like, Oh, this little thing doesn't look good. I'm getting really self critical about it. Yeah, that is really interesting too. That just the idea of art as like, like a fine art kind of thing where you're the goal of painting usually is. to have something to like hang up or something to look at.

And there are like expectations of what it looks like. Whereas other forms of art could be more like functional to like something that you can use in your life. Yeah. And I feel like for me, it also, sometimes if I don't feel like doing a lot of illustration or drawing or decoration with ceramics, I can just make something really simple and it's, and it feels more like the craft aspect of it or a lot more minimalist, but with drawing it, I mean, I maybe can make something more abstract, but I guess I got kind of in a habit of having some expectation of what it should look like.

And that's kind of the same with ceramics. That's actually one of the reasons that's one of the big blocks to have right now too, is it feels. A little intimidating to go back to it because I, now that I've learned how to make things that look pretty good, I have some pressure on myself that if I'm going to go make something, it should look fairly good.

And it's a little bit harder to play with it. Kayla, I feel like this is going to be so relatable to so many listeners around, yes, these blocks that show up and it's amazing when we can sit in that energy, right? Versus like, okay, I'm going to move through this. Have you found anything that's helped you?

Like if you're noticing that evaluative part come forward or has anything helped you kind of move through the block and get to the other side? I mean, in some ways having, when I was in a more of a practice of doing it on a regular basis, I think that helped because it also felt like, okay, well, I'm doing this pretty often.

It's fine. I don't have to keep everything. I know some people also just like make something at the beginning just for practice, or maybe going in with the intention of, I'm just going to play and practice this time. I'm not trying to make anything that I'm going to keep. So that can be helpful. Yeah, the element of play.

That's definitely a big part of ritual. I think it's just like being able to be in the moment and have fun with it. I feel like we have to talk about your teapot.

Yeah. Tell us about your teapot. I have an update on that too. Ooh. Exciting stuff. Yeah. Yeah, my teapot. So yeah, I've tried, I've tried to make teapots. And I mean, it's just one of those things like with ceramics, I feel like there's a lot of elements of the form that you have to learn and kind of refine and there's a lot of physics involved, you know, like with a teapot, it can be a good challenge, because you have to make sure it pours, make sure it's not too heavy, make sure it doesn't crack, make sure the lid fits on.

So there's all these different aspects of it. And, um, yeah, so I've made a few teapots. None of them have really hit the mark on all of those things. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. So, you know, like the first one I made, it was kind of worked well, but for some reason it just cracked when I poured water into it. I know. That was sad. And then, you know, other ones like the lid will fit, but the spout isn't quite right, or it doesn't pour right. So, it can be kind of discouraging a lot of the time too.

Because also with ceramics, it takes, it's a really long process. Like you put it, you know, you have to make it, you have to fire it twice, you have to glaze it. It can be, um, a long process. And one of my teachers also told me that with other, with other art forms, you don't have to look at your mistakes.

Like if you're playing music, or maybe non visual arts. You know, you don't have to like, you don't have to look at your mistakes all the time or figure out what to do with them. They just disappear. But with visual arts, you're making something tangible. So then you see it and you're like, okay, well. I'm going to throw this teapot away.

I'm going to use it. That's such an added layer of pressure. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you have to, you have this thing now and it feels like you're wasting it sometimes too, but you also kind of have to fire some of the stuff to learn how it works too. But the other day I did end up getting a glass teapot because I just, you know, tried to take the pressure off myself to make a good teapot, especially in the near future.

Yeah, that's so you got something so you could be like, okay, I have a functional teapot that's working, and I could just Yeah, because for a while I would go to the store and I would think about buying a teapot and I'm like, no, but I could make this, you know, I'll just make it, like, I'll sell my gold and make a good teapot.

So I would, I was resistant to buying a teapot. Well, good for you for taking the pressure off yourself. Truly. Yeah, it's way to go, Kayla. Yeah, because then I was just using this. Teapot that wasn't quite the most functional and it worked, but, you know, I had some issues, which is fine to use sometimes, you know, because I made it.

So it does feel, feel fun to use the teapot that you made, but sometimes you shouldn't make everything that you need. Yeah, when I witnessed you pouring it, you were, there was a lot of ows in it. But you know, it was beautiful. I'm never going to look at a teapot the same way now. Like, I'm so glad you walked us through this, Kayla.

Like, there's so many parts and steps to this. Wow. Yeah, it's almost amazing that these people, the manufacturers, get that stuff right sometimes. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, I kind of feel the same way sometimes with knitting, where when I go to do like a bigger project, it's like, it can be really frustrating because you put so much time into it and then if it doesn't Work out.

It's like, uh, you just kind of want to give up. Yeah, like give up or like make it work anyway and be like, I'm going to use this thing. It doesn't quite fit, but I'm still going to wear it. Even if it doesn't fit or it's burning my hands, but that's okay. I made it. Okay, so what do you feel like makes art worthwhile even when we have to go through these ups and downs?

Transcribed That's a good question. I think, I think it can be a really cool challenge to express yourself and express a style through something, especially, you know, once you kind of focus on one medium or kind of get find your voice in whatever you're making. I think that can be really cool. And being able to share that with other people and kind of build community with other people around that and be inspired by different other people's styles.

Yeah. I mean also being able to make something that you can use, I think is. Pretty cool. Or, or look at or, you know, kind of making the world a little bit more interesting or exploring that for yourself. I think, like for me, it, when I'm actively doing a lot of art, I kind of walk around the world a little differently too sometimes.

Like I'm looking for something to stamp on something or, you know, like looking for inspiration out in the world. And so it kind of helps me see things a little bit differently when I'm. Just in my everyday life. That's really cool to think about. Is there any time that you feel like you've really gotten inspiration out and about that stands out to you?

Yeah, I think sometimes I'll, I'll go and collect things to stamp on different pieces or like to draw later, or I'll take pictures of stuff that I want to draw, or I'll take pictures of things, you know, like other inspiring things that I see maybe not necessarily in nature, but just like. other people's art. 

Oh, I really like this aspect of it. And when you say stamp, are you talking about like actually making a stamp and stamping it or what? Yeah, potentially stamping something like a, you know, a leaf or um, you know, piece of like textures outside. It kind of makes me pay attention to the textures a little bit.

Sometimes if I'm thinking about that for my own ceramics, like what I want to, what kind of textures I want. And so I'll kind of take a walk and then I'm thinking about the textures that I'm seeing out in the world and trying to mimic them or either literally roll on a texture from something or make something that's inspired by that texture.

So you're like using the texture of the leaf to make a texture like on a piece of paper or like something inspired by it? Yeah. I guess specifically with ceramics because. It's more of a 3d thing. So you can kind of stamp on something or make actual textures that feel like a text, a texture that you might see in 3d worlds.

Halo. This is beautiful. Like a pine cone comes to mind. Like you would look at a pine cone and maybe create like molds. the clay to that texture. Yeah, so you think could think about the patterns in the in that pine cone sometimes too and think about like how to recreate that or literally use it as a stamp or something might not look like the pine cone but kind of use it as a tool.

How? Yeah, I think this is really helpful. I don't know if you're feeling the same way, Kelly, because I feel like I've never identified as an artist, even though I do creative things, but just like hearing that, I feel like it does feel accessible. It's like, that is something somebody could do is like, go out and see like what textures inspire you in nature.

Yeah. I feel like going just like when I'm, when I'm trying, when I am making something, it does make you think about the patterns and, you know, cause especially, I don't know if I'm trying to recreate something, you notice patterns out in nature. And yeah, that can be inspiring. Hmm. Yeah. I love thinking about this.

Being a dancer, like I, it's more of how I'm moving through the space, but again, the visual art piece. Yeah, this is really zinging a lot. So thank you. If you were to do a pine cone dance, what do you think it would look like? I, there's something about pine cones. Like when I go on walks with my dog. I love looking at the, especially the baby pine cones.

Like they always draw my eye. Um, that's a great question, Michelle. Yeah. What would my interpretive dance be? I'll keep you posted. Catch it on the Patreon later.

Well, now, now, now I'm wondering for you, Kayla, like if there's a piece of art. That feels like it just, you're really connected to it, you know, whether it, it could be pottery. It could be something else. Yeah. A piece that you've created that just, yeah, really sits at the center of your heart and why my own art.

I don't know. I'm just looking around my, my, I'm in my kitchen right now and I'm just looking around. I'm like, Oh, what did I keep? You know, there's some things that I keep that I was especially proud of, I guess. I don't know if I would go so far as to think, as to say that they really sit at, you know, they really like That might have been too strong.

I think it's hard. It's because it's a hard thing to say about my own art, like that I'm just so enthralled with my own art that it just,

that I just think about it all the time. Yeah. That is interesting though, that like the idea of like. What art resonates, it seems like it's more like somebody else's art, like, really speaks to something in your soul, but like, what is, what is, where does your own art sit if it's not at the center of your heart?

Ooh, I love that question, Michelle. I think sometimes right after I make it, I'm like, wow, I made this thing, this is the best thing I've ever made. And that can be really, like, I can feel really proud of that. I wanna look at it a lot and like, how did I make this? It's so amazing. But I don't know. It's also, I don't know if it feels at the center of my soul, but , I don't know where it's

yeah. I almost feel like I have a sense of like puff puffing up. Kind of like at your chest, maybe. Like feeling that sense of pride. Yeah, sense of pride. Like, oh, look what I made, I made this thing. You know? Just wanna show other people how other people interact with it.

I'm drinking out of a mug that I made right now. But I, even this right, like, and now I'm, I kept it, especially because I kept this one. A lot of the times I keep ones that may have an issue or I'm not like super happy about. Oh, Kayla, it's gorgeous. This one, I don't really like this art, but it has a nice.

feeling to it, so I'm, so I use it anyway. For listeners, it's like, um, a brown mug that has like a textured circle with a flower in the center. Yeah. I don't know if Kelly's ever heard your proposal story. Oh, I haven't. It involves ceramics. Oh, do tell. Wow.

Yeah, so, yeah, I made a mug, wrote marry me on the bottom of the mug. That's pretty much it. Oh, yeah. Then I gave, I gave, I gave the mug to my partner and I was trying to, it was nighttime and so I couldn't really put coffee in it. So I put some tea and put some milk in it. Try to make sure you can see the bottom of the mug.

Oh, wow. I love that. It's cool to do that. Like, I mean. You are, you're the one that proposed to your man that's so anti heteronormative. Yeah, you know, it was just taking a while. He had initial plans and then it was COVID and so the plans got postponed. And I was like, well, I know that you were thinking about doing this, and I don't think you have another plan at this point, so I'm just going to see what happens.

Aww. But now, too, knowing, like, the whole process, like, that, that took planning. Truly. It did take some planning, yeah. So, I'm assuming, Kayla, he noticed that night. Like, at what moment was he, like, I saw the words. I did have to point out I think, do you see anything at the bottom of your mouth? Like, are you drink, you know, it's also kind of a slow thing to drink, so like a hot beverage.

Did you make it like burning hot? Super hot, but I had to wait like five minutes for it to cool down. Yeah, I had to wait a while.

That is so unique. Wow. I'm really inspired by that. We also want to know about Like we've talked about that block of like feeling like things aren't good enough or you're not like living up to a certain standard. So what would you say like makes art good enough to make? I mean, I don't know. It's a hard question for you know, kind of perfectionist in me sometimes.

It's like, it's never good enough. Wow. That is, that is a strong internal response. It's like, yeah, I'm sure a lot of people have that too. Yeah. You know, not, I mean, there's the question of like, what's good enough to make, and then there's, what's good enough to share with other people or, you know, sell. Or use myself.

Yeah, there's a lot of aspects to it. There's the functional things with ceramics. There's also the functional aspects. So, like, okay, other imperfections in this that make it not very usable or. Unsafe to use or something. There's little holes. Yeah, just airing me and it's like spouting. Yeah. Tea everywhere.

Yeah. Yeah, that's like, that feels more like concrete. Like did, is this functioning or not? Yeah. Yeah. Is it functioning how I want it to also? Like is it going, is it, did I make this thing, does it look like what I intended it to look like? Or does it look different? Better than I intended it to look like.

Or worse. That's fair. Do you feel like it's harder to like, share it with other people than like, the standard for sharing is like, higher? Yeah, especially if I think about selling it. I want it to look a certain way. Function a certain way.

How did you make the leap into selling art? Yeah, I think I basically just started making too much stuff and I was like, Oh, I need to get rid of this stuff. You were too productive. Yeah. Um, but I think maybe there were some opportunities in the area, like markets with the ceramics. People that I was taking classes with or just kind of connections there that made it easy to try selling a little bit too.

And I, it was also, it was nice to sell it because it's also nice to have that goal sometimes, especially around the holidays or something like, okay, I'm going to make this collection of things and share it this time. So that can be nice, but this year also, sometimes it's the same kind of issue where sometimes the pressure, it can be good and bad because sometimes it can be.

It's like a nice motivator, be able to share something that I'm proud of, but it also can feel a little bit like, okay, what, what are other people going to like, and then start getting into thinking about what other people want to buy versus what I want to make can take some of the creativity or fun out of it too.

I remember hearing this like. What when I was more heavily in private practice that kind of blew my mind that was like if you Don't have a boss then your clients become the boss And I was just like thinking that's like I never thought about that with art but it kind of is the same like you have these like external people that are Influencing what you're creating.

I mean and that can be cool sometimes but sometimes it's It's not like sometimes it's cool because people will like something that you might not even like and it's like, Oh, that just brought a new perspective to this. That was, I didn't like that piece and I just had that out just because I was trying to get rid of it and someone was really into it.

Um, so it can be, it can be cool, but sometimes it can also make you make more of something that you might not otherwise really want to make. Yeah. Kayla, how do you gauge that what people are interested in? Is that when you're, you know, selling your art and you're just kind of. listening in to conversations or how are you gauging that?

Yeah, I guess also kind of listening in or seeing what other people are selling, like seeing what sells for other people. Also seeing what sells for my own stuff, what people are interested in, you know, like I'll bring a bunch of different types of things and notice certain things people buy more often than others.

Has the journey of, I know you spoke about being pregnant earlier, has the journey of pregnancy impacted art making at all, or how you view art, your own art, others art? Yeah, I mean, I think it's mostly impacted my own art, just in that I haven't been focused on my own art as much, like my, especially ceramics.

I have been making some other things, but Less focus on that specific medium, even just because it's messy and like takes more physical strength and like more time than like making some sitting on the couch and doing something else. Doing another type of, it's hard to sit on the couch and make ceramics.

Yeah, it's interesting how, and I know somebody, um, cause my mom is an artist as well, and one of her friends. Shout out Annie. Shout out to Annie. Um, one of her friends has, um, is like a pastel artist, but has like, um, some like breathing issues, so he has to like limit the amount of pastel he can do cause of like the dust.

It's just. Yeah, it's interesting how, like, art actually, like, you don't think about it as being such a physical thing, but it really can impact, like, your physicality. Yeah. And that embodiment piece. I'm glad we're, yeah, bringing in the body here. Even just, I also set up a little studio when I first, I moved about like not even a year ago too.

And some of the intention around move around having this new space was that I could have a little studio area in my garage, but then like being pregnant, I feel like I kind of started acquiring. Some other things in the garage, just a few things. Yeah. And just things got a little bit messy in there. And so that's also been kind of interesting to just thinking about the future of making art, realizing that it was actually kind of helpful to be in someone else's space too.

Like in a communal studio sometimes, because especially when I'm trying to get back into something or motivate myself, cause there's also that extra step of like, Oh no, the garage needs to be cleaned out. I need to set up the space. So I feel that so much Kayla, especially with dance. Like when I go to the dance studio, it's like I'm returning.

There's something about being able to drop in to that space. Um, versus when it is in our home, you're right. There's, there are different pieces to navigate within that. Yeah. And it's nice when that, that whole space is set at, like everyone is doing that thing in space. Yes, exactly. That's cool too. Well, we also wanted to talk about the idea of like art as activism too, and I know like your job is environmental activism, and you know you have a lot of background in there.

So what are, just, I mean do you use your art as a form of activism ever? Or like what are, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I actually, that is one thing I have been doing a lot more of. In the past year or so, um, I've been working with a group of people on a semi regular basis to create art around, like, for protests and for, like, to sell at different events, like, for benefit of other people or organizations, and making art together, also, I think can be a really great thing, like, with people who are interested in the same issue or Trying to learn about the same issue.

So I've been doing that a lot in the past year with Jewish Voices for Peace. I've been making, there's, we have an art group within that, so it kind of ranges from making large scale art together to making, to like going to someone's house and make, like doing, kind of bringing your own art project or doing printmaking together for an event or.

or something like that. That's powerful. Kayla, how did that start? Cause I'm wondering, I bet some listeners would love to do something like that. Like how did that begin? That community? A lot of us through, through Jewish Voice, through Peace. We had a group, there were a bunch of different interest groups, kind of people self organizing into different things that they were most interested in, like art making, you know, legislative advocacy.

Social media work, all these different things and, um, different groups. And yeah, just, just like realizing then just kind of thinking with that group about what was needed for an action. For example, like how could art be incorporated into an action? Like, are we going to make a banner together? You know, make a big puppet or something and just working together on that.

I think it's also a great organizing tool to be working with other people on an art piece or work doing art together. And I think it's been really rejuvenating for a lot of people in the group too. And for me as well, because a lot of the time doing organizing work can feel more like work or, you know, kind of be draining sometimes.

And so it's been really nice to be able to get together with people and do something that is really feels rejuvenating and like building community, doing something also useful for an action or for, um, for the organization, but also that's like. Also really helpful for ourselves. That's really cool that it's like, it can be regulating and community based while you're advocating for a cause that's important to you.

Even listening to that, like, my heart feels so warm. And maybe On the website, Michelle, maybe we can link like Kayla. I'm thinking some of your, you know, pieces, ceramic pieces, but also any art from these, um, events that you talked about. Yeah. Yeah. It's been really interesting too, because for different events, you know, that kind of requires different skills or different.

Mediums. Like for one event we were making, we made some puppets. Yeah. Like I want to see an image. I'm like, Oh, what does the puppets look like? Yeah. And there's a lot of groups to her who have a lot of knowledge about making puppets for activism and, um, and so kind of like learned from them and had to, um, yeah, had to get guidance from other people on doing different things like sewing.

And so it really felt like a group activity to, or really learning from each other. And sharing different expertise and art mediums and things like that. So would you say everyone that's doing this is an artist? Or are there some people that do it that are maybe like me? That don't know as much? Yeah, I would say not everyone is an artist.

Or would identify as an artist. I think it's anyone who's interested in making things and who likes making art. It's cool. Yeah, I think a lot of people also have joined this group, this subset of, you know, of Jewish forces for peace in, in Seattle, because they weren't doing a lot of art in the rest of their lives.

And they were like, Oh, I'm just. I just need something that will be really rejuvenating for me. So really wanted to join the art group. Gosh. So think about so many people where they feel like, yeah, like something's missing. There's some void and how much art can fill our cups and bring so much healing, not only to ourselves, right.

But to the greater collective.

Now we're going to think about. Ritual and how we can have more ritual around creativity, right? So my, my favorite thing that you were talking about was finding things in nature and being inspired by that, and especially around this like transition into parenthood. So I'm thinking about maybe. Some kind of ritual.

Maybe you don't have to do it every day or even like, maybe it could be once a week or once a month, but maybe going out and finding something in nature that kind of reminds you of the stage that you feel like you're in with parenting in that moment and creating some art around it and just being like, free to interpret that how you want.

Like maybe you do some of that stamping. Maybe you do like add it to the photo album. Maybe I love this, Michelle. Yeah. Maybe it's like a little bedtime poem that you write or something. But, um, what do you think about that Kayla? Like finding something in nature that's like representative of where you're at in that parenthood cycle.

I like that a lot because I have started a journal and I was thinking. That would be nice to continue some sort of journaling into the sounds like a nice way also to maybe get sometimes with journaling also I feel like I don't necessarily always want to write. So, it sounds like a nice prompt, in some ways to, you know, maybe.

Make some art around it to kind of document the time and sometimes I could write, but sometimes I don't have to write, draw something and make something. Yeah, that's, I think the idea of like mixed media journaling is just really cool. I just, yeah, I just got the visuals, like, yeah, like we were talking earlier, the textures, the, yeah, like the shapes, the, just how dynamic this could be.

And even Kayla, I'm thinking, you know, like when I friends have had babies, sometimes I'm like, how's it going? I don't quite know what to ask, right? Not being a mom myself and how beautiful to even think about, you know, you doing this, of course, for yourself, this ritual and what a way to share about what it's like, right?

Each month or, you know, whatever rhythm feels right. Um, in your intuition. Yeah, definitely trying to think about how to remember or remind myself to do it. That's always a challenge. Do you connect with the moons at all? Like, are you someone that you do any rituals around like the full moon or new moon? I don't, but yeah, something I could do.

I'm also trying to figure out. I mean, one thing in my own life, I'm trying to create some more rituals around, around Shabbat on Saturdays because I'm Jewish too. So maybe thinking about doing some of that reflection. Can you say a little bit about what Shabbat means for people that don't know? Yeah. So every, every week from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday is Shabbat.

So people practice in different ways, but, you know, some people. Might not use technology or like might have a Shabbat dinner on Friday night with their family or, um, you know, it kind of can be practiced in many different ways, but the idea is that it's a day of rest too. So, um, that's kind of the spirit of not using technology, not doing work.

Yeah. Just kind of using as a time of reflection and rest. So that could be maybe a time where kind of reminded to do a little bit of that reflection. And then another aspect of ritual that was coming to mind as we were talking was, of course, like the stuff about activism. And I'm not sure when this will air, but um, in February of 2025, there's a lot of things right now that feel important to speak up about and be active about.

So. I really like that idea of using art and creativity as a way to, like, speak up but also be, like, regulating your system. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's, that's been really helpful for me to Yeah, it can be a great way to be engaged longer term too and not, yeah, being able to take care of yourself and also share messages with the world and with other people and build community with other people.

One thing my mom was doing was like painting rocks, like to encourage people to vote and I know she did that with a friend. And I'm planning to do, um, Valentines and like stick them on people's cars and make, um, political little, like. One of my ideas was, uh, Hey boo, you must be a billionaire cause you're hoarding my heart's wealth.

You know. Ooh, I love that. Yeah, making valentines. That's a great idea. It's like punny, and You're so good at the puns. I'm so good at the puns. You can even send valentines to, you know, to your, your legislators. Yeah, that's a good idea. Send some political valentines. Yeah. Not that you always want to send them a valentine, but, you know.

It's like going, yeah, it's going back to like elementary school days where you're like, okay, I don't really like you, but I have to give you one of these. So, I might as well make it fun for myself. But yeah, like it doesn't, I mean, you could make like little notes like that and run around and spread the word.

Yeah, I think that's what's, that's what's also been nice about Jewish Voices for Peace, too, and just thinking about Jewish rituals, because there are holidays, too, that have their own traditions, and Um, rituals attached to them. So thinking about how do you, how do you build upon those two can be helpful.

Yeah. And I feel like that's something, yeah, anybody could do is like figuring out whether it's like, oh, it's Valentine's Day. I'm going to make valentines or like you have a religious background or. You know, the, the full moons, you know, you could use that any of that as inspiration. Yeah. Tap, tapping into the flow, the season.

I'm very seasonal. So I'm always like, Ooh, like what's, yeah. What's happening during this time of the year. Yeah. Love both of these ideas. Yeah, this is a little bit, just to go off, um, on my own tangent here, but, um, I'm doing these like ritual kits, I'm working on building these ritual kits, and, um, part of it involves like a little creative exercise.

Um, so the one that I created for winter, it's behind you, Kelly, that little terrarium there. Aw, let me hold it up so Kayla can see it. Sure. My terrarium that I made. Aw, that's so sweet. Okay, so for this, for the ritual kits, I like to, like, take something in nature and kind of build on it. So with this one, it was like, the snow pack is creating warmth under, um, for the dirt under it.

So the dirt, even though it's covered in snow, it's actually warmer than it would be if it wasn't. Does this make any sense? It does. No. It's making a lot of sense. Yeah. So there's all these, like, microorganisms that are, like, growing in the winter and they're, like, feeding bigger animals, uh, because of this, like, snowpack that's, like, keeping them warm.

Um, so the idea of the terrarium is, like, putting rocks in that represent things that you want to. Be growing under the surface and like putting the snow on top of it as a protective layer. Mm-hmm . So that's like show that is. I love that. And you just made me think, okay, so when it snows in Colorado and we got a ton of snow last month.

Mm-hmm . I always shovel. Because I'm like, okay, I need to number one, but also I'm like, Ooh, I'm warming up inside. And then after I shovel my ritual is I always lie down in the backyard and do a snow angel. And I close my eyes. And I feel so held by the snow. And it's what you're saying. It's like this protective blanket, um, for the earth and for us.

So, yeah. Be inspired by nature. It's all around us. Yes. All right. Well, it was wonderful to speak with you, Kayla, and I actually feel very inspired myself to be more creative and yeah, let's share some creative stuff that we're doing. Let's do an end. Thanks for having me. Alright, we need to work on our endings just

a little bit, but we did have a proper goodbye with Kayla and chatted with her for a little bit after. So don't worry about that. We're just so glad that you listened to the episode today. We hope that you enjoyed it. We would love to hear from you about your ideas for rituals around creativity. And if you tried any of the rituals that we talked about today, we'd also love to hear about that.

You can find us. It's at Ritual Sisters Pod on social media. Our website is RitualSistersPod. com. We made it so easy for you. Our website is gorgeous. It was created by Brazen Creative. That's B R Z N Creative, who you can also find on Instagram under that name. We would love, love, love to hear from you. We want your compliments, mostly, but we'll also take your criticisms.

We would also love your questions, we'd be so happy to answer them on the pod. I really hope I don't sound desperate right now, I'm definitely not. Message us, write in to us, download the episodes, have a magical evening. Morning, afternoon. Middle of the night? I don't know. Wherever you are, have a magical time.

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